Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Winter Hawk on April 04, 2019, 04:24:39 PM

Title: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on April 04, 2019, 04:24:39 PM
I have some photos of the rifle with the new barrel.  I need to try again on a cloudy day so the shadows are gone.

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~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: dmarsh on April 04, 2019, 04:54:54 PM
Looking good.  That should bring home a gobbler.   :hairy

Dave
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on April 04, 2019, 07:55:49 PM
I have always loved the profile of the T/C Penn.
This is certainly my idea of a super nice riflegun. Ie, rifle shotgun!
I like every thing about it!
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Ohio Joe on April 04, 2019, 08:23:30 PM
It looks good Kees!  :yessir:

Kind'a puts me in mind of a canoe gun of sorts.  :toast :shake
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on April 04, 2019, 09:26:12 PM
The top photo is of the new barrel in the stock, then the rest speak for themselves.  The T-C barrel does NOT have a wedding band, while the new one does.

The PA Hunter, to me, has a strong resemblance to the Harper's Ferry 1803 rifle, to the point that I want to add an 1803 patch box.  That could be interesting as my inletting skills are not that great.  But that is a long way down the road yet.

Thank you all for the kind words.  I just wanted to get it out there for other folks who might want to get a second barrel for their T-C (or other brand) rifles.

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on May 25, 2019, 09:48:03 PM
Here is what she looks like after bluing using Laurel Forge degreasing and browning solution.  I followed the directions although they suggest sanding down to a 600 grit and I stopped at 420.  I made a scalding trough like they recommend, although they say use 2 1/2" PVC which I couldn't find, but 3" worked fine.  Also, to save a bit on buying it the lumber yard guy suggested using sewer pipe which is not as thick as schedule 40 PVC.  It worked out great.  I sawed it with a hand saw and would suggest that you glue the end caps on first to stiffen it up a bit.  I bought 6 gallons of distilled water for this at Walmart, and have 3 gallons left over....  Only problem I found is that the corners of the flats are pretty thin, possibly from getting to carried away with carding.

Anyway, here are a photo of the assembled rifle and one of the barrel, screws, thimbles and under rib in the scalding tank:

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~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 25, 2019, 10:24:37 PM
Kees, In my humble opinion, the Penn Hunter is, and always has been, one of the better-looking mass produced Muzzleloaders on the market.

To me, it has a strong resemblance to the well know British Sporting Rifles.
The lack of that whirly/twirly trigger guard preferred by T/C on their Hawken and Renegade models was, and still is, more of a distraction than anything regarding the character of their guns, but they sold like hot-cakes, and I admit to owning several although I did replace that trigger guard on a particular Renegade in order to obtain a look more like your's, or that of a Sporting Rifle.

In my opinion, you did great!   
Your "bluing tank" has and will serve you well for a long time to come. I have used a very similar "tank" for years when I was really into gun repair and building.
No, it's not a "hot" tank, but I have had several barrels come from such a tank where it would be extremely difficult to see the difference.

Enlarging the picture a bit I have to say I love the wedding rings, very nice.
And I think you're right about the "thinning" on the edges of the Octogan bbl just before the bands. Carding on any octagon barrel must be done very very carefully in order to preserve those edges.
Although not visible in the picture, I am quite sure you could likely see it when it was in your hands.

Beautiful!
Well done, and she looks great!
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Forager on May 25, 2019, 10:57:55 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Ohio Joe on May 31, 2019, 11:05:07 PM
I think you did a great job!  :hairy
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on June 01, 2019, 11:34:26 AM
Thanks for the kind words, guys.  Now to see how long that bluing lasts.  My experience with cold bluing has not been very impressive, but barrel browning with MLF's solution has gone well before, so I hope the bluing doesn't wear off.

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on June 01, 2019, 05:19:30 PM
 :hairy

Russ...
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: blackpowderbill on June 20, 2019, 10:54:20 AM
Ah COOL! Nothing like purposing components.   :applaud
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on June 20, 2019, 09:19:21 PM
Well, I can't afford to buy a trade gun or fowler, this was the cheapest way to get something I can use with shot...

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on June 23, 2019, 03:49:09 PM
Well, I can't afford to buy a trade gun or fowler, this was the cheapest way to get something I can use with shot...

~Kees~

Kees, don't worry about it.
There ain't no fleas on that dog, so shoot it and enjoy it.

The means to shoot shot is a definite plus, and I'm quite sure such guns were to be found everywhere as they do cover about any situation one might encounter, be it the high-country or the plains.
My concern and my only concern would be how well it shoots, be it ball or shot.

My all-time favorite smoothie is a lowly Renegade from many years gone by...since they were first introduced.
My initial goal was to give it the looks of an English Sporting Rifle, I strongly suspect I failed miserably at that attempt even when doing away with that whirly-twirly Trigger Guard by T/C, but I came close. Next time I'll get it right!
(It does have iron adjustable sights, and as such, I can't compete in some matches while still other Booshway's might say that doesn't matter at all.)
Be it roundball or shot. that puppy will get the job done and it does the job quite well, including up to 1-1/8oz of shot with a nice pattern at 25yds.
I've owned the old gun for years and the only part on that gun that's original is the barrel itself, even the sights have been changed out to something I can see better..
It has a L&R Lock, and a Davis DST Trigger, the stock has been re-configured and re-finished so many times I've lost count, and although it may be ugly to some it is still my go-to gun for just about everything...a true, "grab it and run gun".
(https://i.imgur.com/5ZCbVkB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fXzZxXF.jpg)
(That long "kick bar" extends to about 1.5" of the butt plate, and I've added a swivel stud, so there's just no way this gun will ever be looked upon favorably by those concerned with such things.)
Ohio Joe can verify how well it shoots a roundball and patch on some of the targets I turned in last year....suffice to say that "up to 50yds, it shoots a RB and Patch as well as any of my rifled guns" and that's a fact!

Shoot that new gun of yours, and be proud of it, because it reflects you.
Your thinking, not something from a drawings book, or something found in a Museum......when it 'speaks' to you, listen carefully.
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Ohio Joe on June 25, 2019, 09:14:27 PM
100% what Russ says!

I'll only add that you might just be surprised what you see in museums when it comes to these old smoke poles. Just because the 'ol feller wasn't famous for making muzzle loaders for those in his community -doesn't mean he didn't have his own style of build. As I said, you'd be surprised what you see in museums and just when you think you've seen it all, there's always something different when it comes to these old smoke poles.

Shoot it, and have a great time with it, which I know you will. I like it! :hairy
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on June 28, 2019, 04:05:23 PM
As I said, you'd be surprised what you see in museums and just when you think you've seen it all, there's always something different when it comes to these old smoke poles.

Shoot it, and have a great time with it, which I know you will. I like it!

I will definitely shoot it when I get the chance.  Right now I am up to my eyeballs in projects, none of which has anything to do with black powder!  I haven't even had a chance to shoot this month's postal target.  I may go out in the back yard and shoot it with the longbow at 25 yards!  :lol sign

I was in a museum years ago, either in Oregon or Montana I forgot which, looking at various old muzzleloaders, one of which had an uncanny resemblance to a CVA Mountain Rifle.  I'm not saying it was, just that it looked like one which maybe had been left in a pasture for a year or so....

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Flintlock50 on July 23, 2020, 09:39:58 PM
A long time ago, in a land far away (1975, Wichita, KS), I bought a Navy Arms 1803 Harper's Ferry and turned it into a Trade Gun. Since the rifle was in .58 and not in the original .54, I sent the barrel to Bob Hoyt and had him bore it out to 20 gauge. I ground off the rear sight, added some tacks, and presto, changeo, I had a flintlock to use in Trade Gun matches.
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on December 21, 2020, 04:01:38 PM
Kind of resurrecting this thread.  You may remember that I sold the PA Hunter with extra barrel to one of the members here to get funds for another rifle at my Sweetie's behest.  Then it turned out that she didn't like the one I thought she meant to replace the PA Hunter.  I even got a reply from Uncle Russ about how foolish I was to sell the T-C.

Well, I have traded that Lyman GPR and am now the proud owner of another Thompson-Center Pennsylvania Hunter flintlock rifle!  I don't have photos of it yet, it arrived this morning.  I ran a couple of patches down the bore and then oiled it, they all came out clean and I didn't feel any rough spots.  The lock sparks impressively.  Trigger pull wasn't what I am used to.  I pulled the lock and it was grungy (understatement).  I cleaned it as well as I could in the time I had available and that smoothed it out immensely.  I do want to pull the tumbler and get in there to polish things up, and that brings up a question:

A while back there was a post about a mainspring vice for the coil springs T-C used.  Can anyone direct me to that?  I think I will need to invest in one....

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: BEAVERMAN on December 21, 2020, 04:48:15 PM
Here you go Kees

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1038/1/TOOL-VISE-COIL

I have one and it works well!
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: KDubs on December 21, 2020, 05:09:47 PM
 i like it !  nice looking firearm ya got there.
 kevin
 
 
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 21, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
In a moment of necessity, I have used a couple of flat tip screwdrivers to compress that unruly coil spring.  It works, but do it in a small room without a lot of clutter on the floor.  How would I know that?

By the way, I think that PA hunter looks a lot better in my man cave than it did in yours.  Still haven't shot it yet, but its day is a coming.  I have wound up with a few different size moulds and I feel a casting session coming on soon.  Looks like we are going to have a few nice days on the way, and I just might dig out my casting pot and the moulds and give it a go.  Still disappointed that the English trigger guard didn't work out the way I had hoped, so I am still with the original one.  I don't trust my non-existent gunsmithing talents to make the necessary changes.

Glad you found another one.

John
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 21, 2020, 10:06:49 PM
John, Kees, you two just remember I'm still upset with the both of ya!
That gun was flat out "stolen" right from under my own eyes, I was a mere few minutes late on hitting the "I'll take it" button!
Just kidding guys!

Am I understanding correctly that Bob Hoyt will cut a smooth bore in a currently .54 caliber, making it a .62 cal, while using a 15/16" barrel??
What am I missing here?
Was Kees old gun, the one he sold to Bigsmoke, done up in the same manner.....I can't remember much about that gun, other than the fact I really wanted it.
Another thing Kees, should you come across another one of those T/C Penn Hunters in a flinter, and you don't need or want it.....would you remember your poor old Uncle Russ up here in the very cold and very damp Pacific Northwest??
And I ain't going to get all worked up about the caliber, any old caliber just might work......

Russ....

Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 22, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
Russ, indeed the original barrel was freshed out from .50 caliber to .54.
That was the thing that intrigued me about the rifle in the first place.  A .50 is something that I don't necessarily get too excited about, but .54?  Yeah, that works well for me.
The 20 ga barrel is a bit undersized, probably more of a .60 caliber than .62.  But that's OK, I got a couple of moulds of which one should fit.  I think I have a .585 and a .590, so life should be good there.  I will have to go out and get my micrometer tomorrow and mike the barrel walls.  I will report on that in the morning, I hope.
In the meantime just remember the old saying about the early bird getting the worm.  Conversely, the early worm gets eaten.  I don't know what that has to do with things, but it is something to think about.

John (Bigsmoke)
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 22, 2020, 01:37:40 AM
 :lol sign   
Which came first? The Bird or the Worm?
I have no clue, and have to wonder why it even matters.
I remember when Kees first posted about the gun I had some wild thought running around in my head about refreshing a old .50 barrel to another .56 or even a .60 smoothie...no longer real sure the reason why I had such a thought but it got me excited back then.
I've got a beautiful .56, and a good-enough .69, for when you care enough to send the very best....no clue what I was thinking about with Kees' gun.
Get that thing up and running let's see what she'll do.

Russ...

Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 22, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
Russ,
Going back to last evening's postings, here are the dimensions on the two barrels for the PA Hunter.
The first one is the stock barrel that was opened up to .54 caliber.  The octagon part is .940 across the flats, more or less.
It is about .900 at the muzzle and the barrel wall is .195.

The smooth barrel is about .938 on the flats.
It is .890 at the muzzle.
And the barrel wall is .138.

Please take into consideration that my skills with digital calipers is about comparable with my gunsmith talents.  Nonexistent, in other words.  I do guarantee my readings to be correct to the nearest 1/2". :applaud

So, there you go and now you know.

John (Bigsmoke)
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Winter Hawk on December 22, 2020, 03:59:35 PM
The history of that fine gun is that it wouldn't shoot worth beans for me.  I had a bore light at the time (which died on me soon after) and when I checked the bore it was one series of chatter marks.  I sent it to Bobby Hoyt to refresh or rebore, whichever he felt it needed.  He bored and rifled it out to .54 because it had a left-hand twist so he couldn't refresh it.

Then later I sent the rifle without the barrel to him and he made a new smooth bore barrel for it which is the original subject for this post.

Later on, when the budget will allow, I will probably send the new gun in to get a smooth bore barrel made.

~Kees~
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 22, 2020, 04:21:52 PM
Thanks for "The Rest of the Story"
Appreciate knowing from whence it came.

John
Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: RobD on December 22, 2020, 04:54:08 PM
An excellent and most interesting topic for all to peruse, thanx for telling the tale Kees!   :bl th up :bl th up   :shake  :*:

Now linked to here from our TMA Facebook page!



Title: Re: Bobby Hoyt smooth bore barrel for T-C Pennsylvania Hunter
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 22, 2020, 10:55:05 PM
An excellent and most interesting topic for all to peruse, thanx for telling the tale Kees!   :bl th up :bl th up   :shake  :*:

Now linked to here from our TMA Facebook page!

Good story!
Now, if and when John finds the time, I  hope he can tell us more about this good looking piece, and how it shoots.

Russ...