Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: BEAVERMAN on July 14, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
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At this time Lyman is offering 2 GPR's , the old stand by and this signature made by Pedersoli, don't choke when you see the price!
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/lyman-great-plains-rifle-signaure-series-50-cal-flintlock-6034002.html
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Glad I got mine when I did (.50 GPR Flintlock Rifle Kit & .54 GPR Percussion Rifle Kit) - 15 and 3 or 4 years ago respectively... I don't shoot 'em enough and I need to...
I wish them all the best and I hope they can keep the Lyman quality.
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Signature Series says they are out of stock...probably still on the production line?
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I was expecting a higher price, but that is higher than I thought it would be. Too bad they went to 1:48" twist. I like the 1:66" twist of the originals. Better for round ball shooting. I have a much older GP rifle in flint version that I can also convert to percussion should the need arise. The older Lyman's have a great reputation for having accurate barrels.
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Signature Series says they are out of stock...probably still on the production line?
In looking through their entire catalog, it appears that there is a lot of items that are listed as either "Out of Stock" or "Backordered". Kind of makes me wonder about things.
It's been a while since I was actively involved in the business side of things. This is the first that I have heard of this business, which would not be unexpected considering everything. Has anyone heard of this outfit?
Just wondering.
John (Bigsmoke)
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Signature Series says they are out of stock...probably still on the production line?
In looking through their entire catalog, it appears that there is a lot of items that are listed as either "Out of Stock" or "Backordered". Kind of makes me wonder about things.
It's been a while since I was actively involved in the business side of things. This is the first that I have heard of this business, which would not be unexpected considering everything. Has anyone heard of this outfit?
Just wondering.
John (Bigsmoke)
Which business?
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Muzzleloader.com
They are the ones that you linked to for the Lyman Pedersoli Great Plains Rifle.
Oh so many inline rifles and pistols in their assortment of goods for sale. All firearms, no accessories. In my experience, unless you are buying off a sweetheart distributor price list, you just don't make a heck of a lot of money off of guns.
John (Bigsmoke)
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I was expecting a higher price, but that is higher than I thought it would be. Too bad they went to 1:48" twist. I like the 1:66" twist of the originals. Better for round ball shooting. I have a much older GP rifle in flint version that I can also convert to percussion should the need arise. The older Lyman's have a great reputation for having accurate barrels.
My guess would be they want that ball and bullet market. I didn't see where they listed rifling depth...
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Not sure why I find this disturbing, but I do.
The old Lyman GPR was never broken and certainly didn't need no "fixin"....
As was mentioned earlier the 1:66 twist was definitely a winner for all roundball shooters and that includes the vast majority of this Membership.
And, just what does "Pedersoli Improved Lock" really mean? The old lock was just fine, fast enough to practically eliminate the word "flinch" altogether.
As I said earlier, I'm not so sure I care for all this, especially the price tag.
Uncle Russ...
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Russ, If I read the details correctly (no guarantee) the new improved lock features a leaf style mainspring, rather than a coil mainspring. So, more traditional, kinda like putting an L & R RPL lock on a T/C.
Why drop the 1:66 rate of twist? Well, if I recall correctly (again no guarantee), from talking with Greg Roberts (Hawken Shop), 1:48 is a fairly traditional twist rate for Hawken rifles. Evidently massive powder charges were not so typical 150+ years ago as they are now (except possibly in Africa and India.
John (Bigsmoke)
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John, if I recall correctly from reading on this subject, you're spot on about the 1:48 twist.
From my reading, I believe a 1:48 was the only "Rifling Machine" available for shipment at the time Sam Hawken started up his business back around 1820 (+/- a few years.) And that came from the ever popular .45 cal that was dearly loved "back east".
Apparently the cutter blades could be exchanged for up .50 or as small as .32 cal, which had little demand in the now new "West".....I'll have to read over Hansen's, or Robert's book again, but I feel pretty sure what I just said is close.....
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I wonder if they made the change to Pedersoli due to the recall they had with the Invest Arms barrels?
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John, if I recall correctly from reading on this subject, you're spot on about the 1:48 twist.
From my reading, I believe a 1:48 was the only "Rifling Machine" available for shipment at the time Sam Hawken started up his business back around 1820 (+/- a few years.) And that came from the ever popular .45 cal that was dearly loved "back east".
Apparently the cutter blades could be exchanged for up .50 or as small as .32 cal, which had little demand in the now new "West".....I'll have to read over Hansen's, or Robert's book again, but I feel pretty sure what I just said is close.....
Russ, you are correct... Hawken made no bones about it - 1 in 48 was what he had, so that's what he used.
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I wonder if they made the change to Pedersoli due to the recall they had with the Invest Arms barrels?
It's a thought, and it sure could be valid.
But on the other hand (you have five different fingers), I recall seeing the Hawken rifle that Pedersoli came out with as competing against the one by Uberti. Where the Uberti Hawken was really kind of clubby, the Pedersoli was very smooth and refined. You could see why it commanded the difference in pricing.
Now, it could be that the folks at Lyman had noticed that also and decided that they wanted to upgrade their GPR, From the photos that Muzzleloader.com posted on the rifle, it appears that they have indeed upgraded it. As typical, most Pedersoli rifles that I have seen are A+ as far as fit and finish are concerned.
John (Bigsmoke)
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Best I can tell, they also got rid of the perch belly.
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Best I can tell, they also got rid of the perch belly.
....., and (from what I can tell) that ugly Lyman "snail". :hairy :hairy
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(choke) :Doh!
At least they're already out of stock...…….. :bigsmile:
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I don't see any guarantee that they were already in stock. Personally, I kinda doubt it.
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I looked on the Lyman website and they still offer the "regular" GPR in a 1:66 twist.
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Midsouth Shooters Supply has lower GPR prices (than MUZZLE-LOADERS.com) for anyone wanting to purchase a new GPR,.... but I don't see the Pedersoli version listed. :bl th up
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/search?SearchTerm=Pedersoli+signature+Great+Plains+Rifle
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Lyman's trad MLs had been built by Investarms and were Very good machines indeed. You could actually work on them, take them totally apart - their breech plug IS removable! - and are good workhorse rifles at their basic introductory price tags. I've had a gaggle of them and all were very good rifles. Some would opt for a better lock, and I did with an L&R more than a few times, but even that was not at all mandatory. The fact that the Investarms lock could be fully disassembled and "tuned" was another solid reason to buy a Lyman trad ML ... or an Investarms trad ML from DGW - they are/were one in the same, with typically a lower price tag for the DGW offering.
I've also had more than a few of the older (perhaps by 10 years) Pedersoli trad MLs and (unlike their Pedersoli BPCR guns), I wasn't impressed with them. The bigger issue was the near welded breech plugs. For all intents and purposes, they were welded because I could never get the buggers off, and I have proper gunsmith breech removal tools. I never found their locks any better than the Investarms locks, either.
It will be interesting to see just what a doubled or so Lyman price tag will get you with these Pedersoli guns.
A DGW flint .50 Investarms kit ("kit" is almost a joke - these are all easy "screwdriver build" guns) with double set triggers is now $525 when it used to be $425. The same rifle completed is now $595. Times have changed, er, inflated. Grrr.
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Wow! That's a little salty for a hunter version of the GPR with holes predrilled n tapped for sights being the only big mod.
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Wow! That's a little salty for a hunter version of the GPR with holes predrilled n tapped for sights being the only big mod.
you checked out custom gun costs of late? I don't have the funds nor the inclination but given the time invested by builders of just kits it's rather amazing to me that a custom gun is even under $2K!