Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Caplock Long Guns => Topic started by: shootrj2003 on February 25, 2021, 11:19:35 AM
-
I came into possession of a Fowler,/trade gun after my wife’s friend an antiques dealer got it at an auction,I researched the markings and proofs and it was a Birmingham mfg.1830 proofs ,originally a flintlock ,converted to perc.the metal parts are all salvageable ,in fair condition bore and barrel exterior good condition no pitting some rust.half octagon half round half stock .I have all the parts the screw slots are beat,the nipple and nipple barrel might need replacing unless I can separate them,the nipple itself is beat up,the lock is really good shape and everything in the lock works the ram rod pipe is brass but is also beat up at the entrance ,I will try to fix it ,the trigger and guard are good just rusty ,as is the buttplate,this is steel,the stock is pretty beat and dry rotted ,but good for a model and template there is no serpent ,just two inset grommets to receive the lock screws,I think it can returned to safe shootable condition the barrels not Damascus and has no pitts or bad spots,the breech plug is loose and out but will lock up good and tight ,with good healthy threads ,nipple barrel threads are not stripped but might be sloppy so a new one might need to be made with fresh threads,I doubt it was an Indian gun,probably a farm or settlers meat gun looks to be about 12 ga.cost me $50 several years ago,I started on a cherry stock a few years ago so it is a work in progress,slow progress,! I’ll get some pics of the parts up next post
-
.
Kudos, on setting yourself quite a challenge - I can hardly wait to see your progress. :bow
-
I'm turned on!.
Keep us posted
Kevin
-
That sounds like a neat project! Photos will be appreciated. The half stock with octagonal to round barrel sounds intriguing; wondering how it compares to the modern T-C PA Hunter, which is probably my favorite production rifle.
~Kees~
-
Looking forward to watching the progress! :bl th up
-
VERY cool! Looking forward to some pics! :bl th up
-
[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] here’s as many pics as I was allowed I’ll make more on the next post enjoy
-
[ Invalid Attachment ] I had 3 more pics and four pics of a set of brass barreled Naval/ Ships officers made by the same “ Phillips” with similar parts and markings but I guess I’m not allowed that many pics,I guess a second post on that set might work.Sorry guys but enjoy this is pic of the marque on the pistols
-
I'll bet that it started life as a full stock and the fore stock got broken or cracked many years ago, that barrel length is way too long for a half stock, will be interesting resurection to see if it can get back to a shooter!
-
That is a possibility ,but,it has a ring under the barrel for a carrying strap and only the one wedge hole.If our guns could talk!it could be a half stock but a slightly longer one too
-
Do I see an under rib? If my eyes don't deceive me, that would be strong evidence of it having been a half stock.
~Kees~
-
Taken a closer look at under the barrel ,there were two rod pipes silver soldered on the underrib at one time .Someone drilled a hole perpendicular through the underrib and installed e small ring ,wether for a carry strap or to serve as a ramrod pipe or both ,I don’t know.I just looked at again,the ring is brass so I don’t know if it would serve as a very strong carry strap but would as a ramrod pipe,but who knows ,amazing what I missed on this critter,they do tell a story if you listen.I still have only I wedge mount and unless that hole with the ring was a pin mount that would leave a lot of unsecured stock on a full stock.but has any gunsmith used a pin and a wedge on the same gun? That is a question because I don’t know,I never saw that . I keep seeing more but now I have more questions!I hope more experts chime in.The underrib stops at 23 3/4”,the octagon starts at 27”and the wedge mount is at30” the ramrod pipes were at 5” and 16”the ring and hole at 8 1/4” measured from the muzzle ,the barrel is 38” long.there are no dovetails everything’s secured with silver solder.
-
Yes,read my last post never considered that thankswinter Hawk
-
The hard parts done,I just have learn how to make the stock :lol sign
It is not 12 ga. It is .580 at the muzzle 58 cal. Would be more like 20 ga. ,I think.
-
Beaverman,Winterhawk,read both your reply and researched more pics Beaveran,with all due respect to you and after much deliberation and pics it is a half stock and as long as it ever was except a possible maybe 1/16”-1/8” for perhaps a cap ,even that is doubtful.as you’ll see in new pics,the stock ends butted up to the underrib ,however I believe the stock did have higher sides so the barrel was deeper inletted ,the sides of the inlet have been worn down and possibly broken or splintered and smoothed off,it seen rough use. [ Invalid Attachment ]
-
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on the new stock!
~Kees~
-
Can you give a close up of the for end where it meets the barrel . I f the gun started has a half stock then then there would have been provision for a silver or horn cap just in front of the ramrod escutcheon .It is difficult to make out but I would say it started has a full stocked and later a ramrod rib was fitted . If the lock is original it is early type minus the bridle with a brass butt plate the trigger guard would also have been brass with a acorn finial making it between 1750-1810 but it could be older. You mentioned the stock for what I can see to me it can be salvaged Good luck
Feltwad
-
Can you give a close up of the for end where it meets the barrel . I f the gun started has a half stock then then there would have been provision for a silver or horn cap just in front of the ramrod escutcheon .It is difficult to make out but I would say it started has a full stocked and later a ramrod rib was fitted . If the lock is original it is early type minus the bridle with a brass butt plate the trigger guard would also have been brass with a acorn finial making it between 1750-1810 but it could be older. You mentioned the stock for what I can see to me it can be salvaged Good luck
Feltwad
Feltwad is the man for outstanding information on this subject! :hairy
How you been Feltwad. Do you have any projects going on now? Good to see you!!! :shake
-
Joe
Well I am still here not much restoration done because of the corvid lock down , both the wife and me have been in lockdown for a year I get out for 1/4 hour a week to collect my pension from the post office . My daughter does the shopping we would have been in a bad state for getting the essentials
Restoration have almost come to a stand still have done a few pin fire shotguns also a Joseph Manton sxs percussion that I bought in bits it did turn out OK that's all , has for pest control and game shooting that has all been stopped .Well that's about it hopefully in the near future we will be back to normal Cheers and stay safe
Feltwad
-
hopefully in the near future we will be back to normal
Yes sir, this covid lock down has played havoc everywhere, and with everything. I hope we're getting back onto the road of normal... You all stay safe, Feltwad... :shake
-
Yessir, what Joe said as well, stay safe, Feltwad, and don't let any of them ol' Covid bugs catch up with you. I will be getting my second Pfizer shot tomorrow, and then I will feel a bit safer, but still will not let my guard down. Here in our county, we have been moved down to red level, which means we can have indoor dining in limited capacity and relaxed restrictions on other businesses. Even our movie theatre, which has been closed for a year will be reopening this month, also, I am sure, on limited capacity. Have you had your vaccinations yet?
John (Bigsmoke)
-
Another Legend has returned! Could it be the world is starting to return to something approximating normal?
Welcome back, Feltwad!
-
Thanks for the welcome fellas but to be honest I have not really been away I have signed in from time to time to see what has been the topic I will go through the latest restorations before lockdown and will post . Stay safe
Feltwad :bl th up
PS enclosed is a image of a sxs 12 bore percussion that I bought in bits at auction 3 months ago by Josh Manton [ Invalid Attachment ]
-
Some thing went wrong when entering images only needed one but got many apologise
Feltwad
-
This tech stuff sometimes does strange things! Nice shottygun!
~Kees~
-
I agree sometimes the tech stuff does strange things for me , But getting back to the original thread of Shoot jr 2003 how is the restoration going . May I suggest the drum and nipple will need a good thread when fitted does it but up to the threads of the plug which has a V in the plug for a flash channel or does it enter the bore to the front of the plug. The reason I asked is I have seen some blow out mostly when they but up to the breech plug because they are screwed up to tight against the plug and stripping the threads on the drum and nipple. Hope this have been of some help keep us informed of the progress Cheers
Feltwad
-
Here is an update,first feltwad did you ask for a close up of the muzzle and rib or the stock and rib there is a pic of the front stock and rib 1st page.I am in the process of teaching myself stock making ,two stocks, the Fowler and a Curley maple stock for my Lyman GPR.I have done stocks just not muzzleloader stocks with octagons I am using files ,chisels and router and gouges for the Fowler’s round channel section.aA good chunk of the Fowler’s stock is wood filler and there is little side left to the barrel channel.
We’re these fiowlers Finished in the white,browned or blued.?the breech plug has the v ground into it at drum entrance hole
-
Some thing went wrong when entering images only needed one but got many apologise
Feltwad
The extra images have been removed. :bl th up
-
Here is an update,first feltwad did you ask for a close up of the muzzle and rib or the stock and rib there is a pic of the front stock and rib 1st page.I am in the process of teaching myself stock making ,two stocks, the Fowler and a Curley maple stock for my Lyman GPR.I have done stocks just not muzzleloader stocks with octagons I am using files ,chisels and router and gouges for the Fowler’s round channel section.aA good chunk of the Fowler’s stock is wood filler and there is little side left to the barrel channel.
We’re these fiowlers Finished in the white,browned or blued.?the breech plug has the v ground into it at drum entrance hole
Most muzzle loading guns are fished in the white , take care with the drum and nipple do not screw it up too tight and strip the threads
Feltwad
-
I believe the drum needs to be replaced though it threads in the threads on the drum are not many and in poor condition only a bit more than 1 full thread exists and it is an incredibally beat up piece of metal at both ends. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
-
I believe the drum needs to be replaced though it threads in the threads on the drum are not many and in poor condition only a bit more than 1 full thread exists and it is an incredibally beat up piece of metal at both ends. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]