Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Gun Building and Repair => Topic started by: rollingb on January 21, 2023, 12:04:59 PM
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An old friend in Wyoming, called and asked if I could fix the percussion smoothbore he got from Jackie Brown 2 or 3 years ago. The smoothbore has been sitting in his closet "in the white" all this time. He said there was a big gap between the drum and the cut-out in the percussion lock.
I said sure, send it to me and I'll see what I can do.
Well I received the smoothie, tore it down, and started to unscrew the drum from the barrel, and this is what I found. :scared:
Now Jackie must have been drunk, (or, he didn't care) when he drilled and tapped the breech for the drum.
(https://i.imgur.com/JTsJl3Il.jpg)
I called the owner and told him the "proper fix" would be,.... to start over with a new barrel, he didn't like the sound of that.
So I told him another option would be,.... I could "plug the hole", take off the soldered lugs and front sight, rotate the barrel and re-solder them so the "plug" would be hidden in the barrel channel. He wasn't particularly fond of that idea either.
So we decided on a third option,.... which will be to solder some brass shim stock in the lock's cut-out, and I'll file it to conform to the angle of the screwed-up drum. The brass shim stock will support the drum properly, and fill the gap between the drum and lock.
He liked that idea, and asked if I'd go ahead and completely finish the smoothie for him, :).... so now I've got a "winter project". :laffing :bl th up
Since I'm out of brass shim stock, I've got it on order and the wait goes on.
I'm posting this as an example of what you might get when dealing with Jackie Brown,.... and he should know better, 'cause he's been building guns since the 1980's. :(
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I thing your option #2 was the best solution for a fix. If it were my gun I would send it back and ask for a new barrel or my money back.
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Wow!!! :o
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Another idea: de-breech the barrel, cut it ahead of the drum hole, reinstall the breech plug and drill another hole for the drum. This will also mean cutting new dovetails for the under lugs but gives you a good, solid fix. It would be way cheaper than a new barrel....
~Kees~
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Some times these small manufacturers can be a surly bunch.
I recollect back about 1981, I got a beautiful SMR from my wife (she's a keeper, for sure). A friend of mine was so impressed with the rifle that he bought a Doc Haddaway flintlock from me and sent it back to the maker and ordered a rifle the same as mine, only using the lock he sent. When he got the new rifle, it included a plastic bag with the mainspring in it. The bad news was the spring was in two parts, and overall, the gun looked like a 6th grade shop project from a special needs school. The inletting was ragged, the browning was splotchy and of course, the lock was not functional. It seemed like everything that could have been done wrong - was.
When my friend sent a letter to the maker, he got a reply. It went kind of like this: F%#* you, you got what you got. I will not do business with you again and I don't want to hear from you, ever!!!!! Signed, Jack Garner.
I don't know what ever happened to that rifle. Seems like it would have taken a lot of filler to make the fit and finish look even halfway right. Sadly, that was the last Haddaway lock I ever got. I don't know if he ever got that fixed or not.
John (Bigsmoke)
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If it were my gun I would send it back and ask for a new barrel or my money back.
I doubt if Mitch would have even gotten a reply back from Jackie, after waiting 2-3 years before making a complaint. :(
Had Mitch tore this gun down for "finishing" when he first got it, he may have had some leverage on Jackie. (but who knows)
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Is there a way to install a new drum / than heat the hammer and bend it so the cup will strike the Nipple squarely? (If I'm seeing / understanding this right?)
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The proposed repair is unsafe. The drum should be square to the barrel, so when it is screwed in the drum face makes contact with the side of the barrel all the way around. Going in at an angle, when the hammer hits it will force it against the point where it makes contact with the barrel. This will act as a fulcrum, and eventually the drum will fracture. With any luck someone will notice a crack before it gets blown off.
Years ago we had a drum blown off at a shoot. It fractured at the corner of the threads, then blew off when the gun was fired. The shooter was seated at a bench, I was seated on the ground to his right shooting cross-sticks. The drum went over my head and through a 2x6 supporting the roof over the firing line. We never did find it. The threaded portion of the drum remained in the barrel.
If you've got a drill press, you should be able to plug the threaded hole, and drill & tap for a drum with larger threads. (The plug will just make it easier to drill the hole on center, you'll drill it all out.) I hate drums, but I'll spring for a new one if you'll do the work to fix it.
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The proposed repair is unsafe. The drum should be square to the barrel, so when it is screwed in the drum face makes contact with the side of the barrel all the way around. Going in at an angle, when the hammer hits it will force it against the point where it makes contact with the barrel. This will act as a fulcrum, and eventually the drum will fracture. With any luck someone will notice a crack before it gets blown off. With a brass shim soldered to the cut-out on the lock and filed to fit the drum for support, what do you think the chance is for the fracture you mentioned?
Years ago we had a drum blown off at a shoot. It fractured at the corner of the threads, then blew off when the gun was fired. The shooter was seated at a bench, I was seated on the ground to his right shooting cross-sticks. The drum went over my head and through a 2x6 supporting the roof over the firing line. We never did find it. The threaded portion of the drum remained in the barrel.
If you've got a drill press, you should be able to plug the threaded hole, and drill & tap for a drum with larger threads. (The plug will just make it easier to drill the hole on center, you'll drill it all out.) I hate drums, but I'll spring for a new one if you'll do the work to fix it.
Do you have a link to where I can find a 1/2" drum with an over-sized threaded portion?
TIA
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Rondo, give the gunworks in Oregon a call, they have a large inventory of uncommon stuff, you may get lucky there!
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Will do, thanks Jim. :hairy :yessir:
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You'll need to figure out what thread size you have now. I've got thread gauges and calipers and stuff, but what I usually do for things like that is take the drum to NAPA or O'Reilly's and use the display plate to figure out thread size. While you are there, pick up a coupe of bolts threaded that size to use to plug the old hole. ("Bolts" because if you're like me, if you buy one you'll mis-place it before you use it.)
Once you know thread size, go up at least one size in threads--with that angle, 2 sizes would be preferable. Log Cabin Shop has one here that you might look at: https://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=&product_id=25308
Log Cabin, Track, or NAPA/O'Reillys will have or can get the tap and pilot drill. Don't forget tapping fluid.
Remove the old drum. Remove the breechplug. Plug the hole, dress the plug flush with the outside of the barrel. Assemble the gun and use the lock to locate your center for the new hole, and centerpunch it. Remove the barrel, clamp the barrel to your drill press table and make sure everything is square, drill your hole. Thread it, screw in your drum and make it flush inside (cut it off close, then file any protrusion into the bore). Then remove the drum, replace the breechplug, and thread in the drum--you may have interference with the breechplug, so might have to do some work there to fit it.
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You'll need to figure out what thread size you have now. I've got thread gauges and calipers and stuff, but what I usually do for things like that is take the drum to NAPA or O'Reilly's and use the display plate to figure out thread size. While you are there, pick up a coupe of bolts threaded that size to use to plug the old hole. ("Bolts" because if you're like me, if you buy one you'll mis-place it before you use it.)
Once you know thread size, go up at least one size in threads--with that angle, 2 sizes would be preferable. Log Cabin Shop has one here that you might look at: https://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=&product_id=25308
Log Cabin, Track, or NAPA/O'Reillys will have or can get the tap and pilot drill. Don't forget tapping fluid.
Remove the old drum. Remove the breechplug. Plug the hole, dress the plug flush with the outside of the barrel. Assemble the gun and use the lock to locate your center for the new hole, and centerpunch it. Remove the barrel, clamp the barrel to your drill press table and make sure everything is square, drill your hole. Thread it, screw in your drum and make it flush inside (cut it off close, then file any protrusion into the bore). Then remove the drum, replace the breechplug, and thread in the drum--you may have interference with the breechplug, so might have to do some work there to fit it.
I'm set up to do all that. :hairy :)
Thanks for the link to The Log Cabin Shop. :shake :bow
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I've not had the need for a while - but if you can't find something that works let me know - I have the use of a friends lathe, so if you send me the measurements and I can chuck up some bar stock and make the part....
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Thanks for your offer Hawkthrower. :shake
The drum that Jackie used is a 5/16"-24 and I have a 7/16"-20 coming from the Log Cabin Shop, so I should be good. :applaud
The only thing I don't like about the drum coming from the LCS is their drum comes pre-drilled for a nipple, but I can work with that. :)
Thanks again! :bl th up :shake
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Rondo, I've purchased 1/2 x 5/16 x 24 "blank" drums from Track of the Wolf in the past... I expect they'd still carry them. They do have them in stock for $4.69 / not sure what shipping would be? :shake
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Joe, the old drum is 1/2 x 5/16 x 24 and the pilot hole for it was drilled and tapped at an angle, so I'm going 2 sizes bigger (1/2 x 7/16 x 20) with the new drum so I'll be sure to have full thread depth all around the new over-sized drum. :bl th up :)
Normally I use the 1/2 x 5/16 x 24 blank drums (from Track) on the percussions I build. :bl th up
I started a 1 1/2" x 5/16 x 24 bolt in the existing hole and the bolt angles UP and FORWARD coming out of the drum hole (looks really weird :scared:), there's no way Jackie used a drill press to drill that hole. grrrrr ;banghead;
I sent pictures and told mitch what's going on with his smoothie, and he said "SELL IT, if you can find someone who wants to buy it".
So,.... I might buy it in order for him to recoup his money. :bl th up
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Well if you BUY the dang thing, you can skip this whole percussion hoopla, plug the hole, drill it for a touchhole, and make it a flintlock like an honest person! :laffing
I've got a partial kit gun leaning in a corner at my old house--I've never done anything with it because the barrel is 13/16x.45, and I don't trust a drum in such a thin wall. I may grab it Friday and contemplate building it as a flintlock. A small Siler would be about right, if I can't find a good later-style lock the right size. 'Course then I'd have to figure out what to do with a .45. Maybe I can move it to a corner _here_ and stare at it for 20 years. . . that might be easiest! :Doh!
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Well if you BUY the dang thing, you can skip this whole percussion hoopla, plug the hole, drill it for a touchhole, and make it a flintlock like an honest person! :laffing
I can't say that I haven't entertained that exact same thought. :bl th up :laffing
I do have a new Siler flint lock, in one of my parts boxes, and the percussion lock on the smoothie is a large Siler. :bl th up
As things currently stand, I've got four .62 cal. Northwest Trade Guns in the rack right now, PLUS one .62 cal. Chief's Grade Trade Gun, and a Jack Garner .62 flint smoothbore.
This eyesore Mitch sent me is a percussion .62 cal.Chief's Grade Trade Gun,..... so I'll likely buy it, and finish it, for my wife (she likes percussions), or, give it to one of my kids if Beth doesn't want it.
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Is this one of Curly's old kits, or NorthStar West, or something some else offered?
I'm not much of a shotgunner, most of my smoothbore use is with roundball. I shot a 24 gauge NWG for a couple years, then got persuaded to go to a Bess for 20+ years. Now I've got an old Belgian double that I seldom shoot, since going back to rifles.
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This is one of Jackie Brown's creations.
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I bought a rifle kit that came from Tip Curtis. Whoever I got it from messed up the threads just like yours. I re drilled it and installed the largest white lighting liner. It is now one of my best shooting flinters.
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Boy, have I got some personal stories about ol' Jackie Brown and his infamous name renown. What a mischievous character.
!!!! BUYER BEWARE !!!!
Better yet, DO NOT buy from this scammer!
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Yikes