Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: No Powder on January 30, 2023, 09:49:47 AM
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My buddy just gave me his current issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine to look at. I read an article that mentioned those white sparks flying into the pan. And I have seen this same thing mentioned before. I am not saying this is not true, but all the sparks I have ever seen were orange. Am I color blind or are all the muzzleloaders I have been around been of inferior quality? I also have an article that says orange sparks are unproductive and too cool. If it ain't broke don't fix it. My orange sparks seem to be working fine.
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Hmmm... I guess I never really paid attention to the color of the sparks going into the pan, I seldom ever look until I replace a flint / or adjust one / or dress one. Even then I'm just looking for a good shower of sparks with no specific color in mind... I'll admit that as I grow older my seeing of colors "eyesight" doesn't seem to be near as sharp as it was when I was younger, but I can still see sparks (no matter what the color they may be). :) :shake
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The Hodgepodge rifle has orangish sparks, but they seem to go into the pan alright, and ignition is (to me) fast and dependable. The Traditions Shenandoah I recently acquired throws a lot of white sparks. I haven't shot it yet so can't give a report on how well it goes off.
~Kees~
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I am assuming it all depends on the frizzen.
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I, also, tested my Flintlocks for spark color (it was too cold to go outside so I had time). The results are as follows:
.50 cal TC Hawken White Sparks
.45 cal Pedersoli Kentucky White Spark
.40 cal Buggy Rifle Maker Unknown Orange sparks
.50 cal Traditions Trapper pistol Orange sparks
As a control, I swapped the flints on the TC and the Buggy rifle and the spark colors remained the same.
So I agree with No Powder it's all in the frizzen.
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And I bet you guys that have orange spark throwing guns are not having ignition problems either. How are we to encourage young people to become interested in this great pastime ,when they are given false information.
ORANGE SPARKS ARE UNPRODUCTIVE AND TOO COOL IS THE WRONG ANSWER. I have been trying to work with my neighbor and his flint lock for years. He believes everything he reads. So these statements are making my job more difficult. Forgive me for getting worked up.
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I have a lot of respect for Fred Stutzenberger, but sometimes he gets a little "out there". But most of his research is spot on, if a bit esoteric. However, if my rifle goes off reliably I'm not going to worry about the small stuff.
I agree about it being the frizzen. I think it could also be the main spring strength and how hard the flint strikes said frizzen.
~Kees~
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I also respect Fred, but it makes it a little more difficult working with my neighbors education. I can only hope he doesn't see that article.
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I don't pay much attention to the sparks either. But when I've taken notice of this it seems I saw mostly white sparks with a few maybe orange. This has only been with a couple of rifles. I'll just throw this out there for those who want to chew on it a bit. It might have something to do with the "steel" of the flint. It may be possible that slight differences in the alloy mix or even micro impurities make the difference. 8)
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I also think the alloys make the difference. I believe Hanshi has the answer.
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I believe Hanshi's thoughts are on the money. :bl th up
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What does steel of the flint mean? 🤔
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Just a WAG, but I think Hanshi is referring to the hardness of the Flint.
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My go to guy has another answer for me. What would I do without you.
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.50 cal TC Hawken White Sparks
.40 cal Buggy Rifle Maker Unknown Orange sparks
As a control, I swapped the flints on the TC and the Buggy rifle and the spark colors remained the same.
So I agree with No Powder it's all in the frizzen.
Well, Nessmuk's experiment seems to show that it wasn't the "steel of the flint". We need more testing by other people to see if this bears out. I'll see what I can do and report back.
~Kees~
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I found this:
"Spark Color
Generally speaking, spark color tells you the most about the temperature and energy within the metal. When the grinding wheel removes small specks of metal from the test piece, it’s using energy to do so — meaning it has less energy with which to send that speck flying.
Due to this reality, harder metals that require more energy to separate will produce sparks with lower energy levels — and therefore a duller red hue. Softer metals, on the other hand, will produce white or hot sparks, indicating higher energy levels.
In general, red sparks indicate a lower-quality metal that is easier to cut and will have fewer applications in industry. White or hot sparks indicate a higher-quality metal with more potential for commercial use."
there must be a point of diminishing returns in either direction. too hard not hot enough sparks, too soft no sparks.
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So my understanding is the metal of the Frizzen determines the spark color not the type of flint, correct?
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So my understanding is the metal of the Frizzen determines the spark color not the type of flint, correct?
Hammer steel sparks are pieces of scraped off metal, so if spark color is of interest, it's up to the metal used for the frizzen, and what temperature they've achieved.
It's not the sparks themselves that matter, it's the amount of HEAT they produce to light up the pan powder, then it's the greater amount of pan powder heat that ignites the chamber powder.