Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Smokey on April 02, 2023, 09:39:46 AM
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To those who regularly shoot woodswalks,
Which caliber do you like best for woodswalks?
Also, what is your woodswalk gun?
And why?
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I guess I would have to say a .54.
For an all around caliber, I think it fulfills about everything I would want.
For over 25 years, I was vacillating between .62 and .72 calibers but since I have sold those, the .54 really has taken their place. Besides, some clubs don't favor the big bore guns, they are afraid the big boomers will damage their targets. Interestingly enough, the only time I ever broke a target was with a .54. Go figure...
I have had so many rifles, one would have to have a date qualifier for what is my woodswalk gun. Currently, it is a T/C PA Hunter that has been bored out from .50 to .54 caliber and is being updated from flintlock to percussion. I am really looking forward to that improvement.
John (Bigsmoke)
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I haven't been on a woodswalk since I left Oregon in 1992, but in my perambulations here on the Wayne National Forest I often carry my .45 caliber "Hodgepodge" rifle. It is so named because it is a mixture of parts. It started out as a Deer Creek kit (CVA Mountain Rifle, actually) with a slimmed down stock. Then I had Captchee install a new Colerain barrel on it, and I changed the trigger guard out for a Leman from Track of the Wolf and added a patch box. It weighs a little over 7 pounds and is a joy to carry.
~Kees~
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Smokey that is a good question, and for me a hard one to answer. I have several rifles I use, but the weather does help me to decide which one to take . We just had our first woods walk last Sunday. I took my old TC Renegade in 50 cal. and I only hit 7 out of 12. Perhaps I should consider using a different rifle next time. I have had some good shoots with that rifle too. So I would say that my 50 cal Renegade is probably my favorite rifle to use on our woods walks.
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I prefer the .54 as it hits our steel targets with authority. We use 3/8" steel targets of various shapes, and some of them require the target to be knocked over in order to score. I vary which gun I use depending on the weather and the length of the walk. For wettish weather I use my Hirsh Leman caplock or my Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. For dry days I choose a flint lock either a custom Pennsylvania long rifle or my Kern Jaeger.
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For me doing a woods walk at a Rondy is my old 54 Lyman GPR, dang this is a tack driver, shoots way better than I can see anymore, if I'm doing a serious woods walk IE hunting here in the wet side or Washington State it's my old TC Renegade in 54, stock was put on a diet a dozen or so years ago and lock polished making it REAL fast, and I cut 2 inches of the barrel, comes up quick and swings fairly well in the brushy jungle we hunt for Elk and Deer in here, considering most of my kills have been 50 yards or less that shortened barrel is not a factor. Shes an ugly old girl, but she sure does shine when it's time to work!
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Hey Smokey, don't keep us in suspense for ever.I think we all would like to know what your choices are too. Sounds like a lot of love for Renegades. I bet you would like to use one of those also.
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Well, over at Chadron Fur Trade Days (the only place I can recall ever doing woods walks) I'd continue to go with my .45, but nothing less... (the reason) Some folks used .32's, .36's, and .40 caliber rifles - and they couldn't topple some of the heavier metal animal silhouettes with those smaller calibers, and to be honest - I aimed high on the metal to topple the ones I shot at with my .45...
So, it depends on (IMHO) on what will be required to be done during a woods walk / and usually you're not going to know if you have enough rifle or not, until you're doing the woods walk...
Ideally, IMHO - a .50 caliber would no doubt serve you the best as a minimum caliber, but the .54 is probably the one to bank on.
Just my opinion...
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I used to shoot .40cal but lost too many points because I couldn't knock some targets down. So now I usually shoot the last .50 flinter I built until someone makes me an offer I can't refuse. Then build another (usually Bucks Co.).
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Those targets that have to be knocked over can be frustrating with a small cal. But I have trouble hearing those tanks when hit by a small ball. Even with a 50 or 54 , with my hearing loss, I sometimes have to rely on others to tell me if I hit the tank . Especially if they're about 120yds. away. Those tanks are the biggest reason I like larger calibers. Don't graze those tanks. Hit them in the dead center. Make em ring.
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.54 flintlock rifle, my go-to long rifle.
I built this one and sold it, building another ... for ME. 8)
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Smoothbores are real nice, too, this is a .54 ...
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.54 for me too.
Mainly cuz it's the only rifle I have pre 1840.
I was the top shooter with it this past weekend woods walk at my club.
I'm using 75 grs 2f , so it can eat up some powder on a long walk.
Probably why folks try smaller calibers. I imagine.
Go big or go home :bigsmile:
Kevin
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Go big or go home :bigsmile:
Good advice, Kevin, but the CdA Muzzleloaders has a .60 caliber limit. So, whatcha gonna do?
I'm using 75 grs 2f , so it can eat up some powder on a long walk.
Well, two ways you can alleviate that problem. 1) Get a bigger power horn. 2) Carry a spare can of powder with you. At 75 grains per shot, you are using 1500 grains for a 20 shot match. That's not quite a quarter of a pound. No big deal.
I was the top shooter with it this past weekend woods walk at my club.
Congrats on that. Good shooting, especially if some of the guys from Sandpoint came down for the shoot.
John (Bigsmoke)
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With a .54 bore flintlock, or any bore size for that matter, I'll always load with 3F (Swiss).
Woods walks rarely go less than 50yds or so, and 50 grains of 3F is flat shooting and accurate with a patched .530 ball.
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Our woods walks usually run around 20 shots. Metal gongs are used for targets at 50+ yards. About 1/3 of the targets are less than 50 yards and they are usually biodegradable targets like ritz crackers, potatoes, charcoal briquets, carrots and eggs. You need a rifle that is accurate for some of these targets yet still have the ability to knock down or ring a steel gong. I usually shoot a .54 with 70 grains of 3f, but on some shoots I will use a .50 with 60grains of 3f. The moving targets are the hardest for me to hit. We have a running squirrel at 30 yards, a running boar at 45 yards, a pendulum at 30 yards and a flying tennis ball at 30 yards. Our running shots must be taken with the gun at port arms. When you call for the target you must mount the gun and draw back the hammer (cock) to shoot.
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I use to hold "ML Range Walks" at my local club / and we shot strictly "swinging" gongs from different distances so all you had to do was hit the gong to get the point... In a contest like this / caliber doesn't matter much as long as you know your ML, and your windage and elevation judging.
It's always fun shooting at reactive targets! And it levels the playing field for all involved. :bl th up
(side note) I also used this same technique above when holding .22 Rimfire Matches at our local club... The Rimfire shooters didn't like this type of match / but us Traditional Muzzleloading Shooters - we had great fun with it! :hairy
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If Nessmuk is following this, I hope he doesn't get any ideas about flying or swinging postal targets.
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If Nessmuk is following this, I hope he doesn't get any ideas about flying or swinging postal targets.
:lol sign
Tom, those were different sized gongs suspended from chains at different distances. :)
I'll say this, Nessmuk has some very good idea's for Postal Matches and Challenges, like the Morgan Rifleman's shingle challenge. That's a good one!!! One I'm going to try when Range conditions (just getting to the Range) gets better. We got snow, again!!! :hairy
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You need a rifle that is accurate for some of these targets yet still have the ability to knock down or ring a steel gong.
That sums up the issue behind this question. I have not done more than a few woodswalks. For some targets like popsicle sticks, a smaller, low recoil caliber seems best. Then, there are things like split the ball on the axe where a larger caliber has more lead to split.
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My first flintlock, a 40 Cal Southern Mountain Rifle made by Tip Curtis,
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For some targets like popsicle sticks, a smaller, low recoil caliber seems best. Then, there are things like split the ball on the axe where a larger caliber has more lead to split.
I would differ with you on the more lead to split concept. Whether you are shooting a .32 or a .72, it is all about hitting the ball dead center on the ax blade. If you hit it a bit off center, you will only break one balloon or clay bird or whatever. The other part of the ball will be pushed wide.
John (Bigsmoke)
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For some targets like popsicle sticks, a smaller, low recoil caliber seems best. Then, there are things like split the ball on the axe where a larger caliber has more lead to split.
I would differ with you on the more lead to split concept. Whether you are shooting a .32 or a .72, it is all about hitting the ball dead center on the ax blade. If you hit it a bit off center, you will only break one balloon or clay bird or whatever. The other part of the ball will be pushed wide.
John (Bigsmoke)
And don't forget the horseshoe factor!
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My first flintlock, a 40 Cal Southern Mountain Rifle made by Tip Curtis,
Are there any targets that make you want a larger caliber? As far as woodswalks go, how does the .40 perform for you?
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Thanks for all of the replies so far.
Helpful.
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I'll bite! What's the "Horseshoe" factor?
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My favorite was usually my Lyman Trade Rifle in 54. Mighty accurate and easy to carry.
As far as the “ split the ball on the ax” goes I always played the odds. They usually had two clay birds each about an in from the ax, 5 pts. A bird. Having slid a ball down the side of the blade a couple times I opted to just shoot one clay and take the 5pts rather gambling and coming up with nothing. Just have to remember to say ahh shucks I missed. Lol
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I'll bite! What's the "Horseshoe" factor?
Mark, that's having the horseshoe firmly planted in your backside to be lucky enough to hit the popsicle sticks and split the ball :luff:
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I thought it was the old horseshoes and handgrenades thing.
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I thought it was the old horseshoes and hand grenades thing.
"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...."
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Close counts with nuclear devices, also.
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Close counts with nuclear devices, also.
Seems excessive for a woodswalk.
Point is: I thought a larger ball has more chance of catching that axe head than a smaller roundball. Other than the need to knock down a steel plate, if necessary, is there any practical reason for a larger caliber, such as .54 in a woodswalk?
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I really think a lot of it comes down to just personal preference.
In my case, I started off decades ago shooting a .54 Renegade. Over the years, I have had a lot of different rifles and the .54 has always been what I liked best and what shot best for me.
I have tried a few different .50's and was not able to make them do anything. OK, I did have one .50 that shot well, but I figured that was the exception that made the rule. I have had a couple of .62's and they shot well, I had a .66 and it shot like a .50. I had a .69 and it was OK, but not great, but my .72 and I got along just fine. My 8 bore was also good, but I could never get proficient with the 4 bore.
And then there is the problem with some clubs not wanting you to shoot anything bigger than a .58.
So, yeah, the .54 is the rifle that works best for me. As long as I am casting round ball, it is affordable enough to shoot, it is not abusive to the shooter and it has the power to knock down steel silhouettes at 200 yards. I think that checks off all the boxes. But again, it is mostly personal preference. If you have a .50 and it works good for you, why change. I have seen a lot of shooters do really well with a .50 in woods walks.
If you have the opportunity to try some different rifles in various calibers, that's not a bad idea. And also, the design of the rifle has a bit to do with things also.
John (Bigsmoke)
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10-4 on the personal preference Bigmoke. If it was all about winning, I'd take my best shooter to every shoot. But I have several I can use and I like to shoot them all. So I lay winning to the side and think more about the fat chewing and the tales that need to be told and pick a weapon and go for it. But weather can play a big part in the decision made. I still like the ones with the hooked breech for ease of cleaning if they should get wet. So flip a coin and have at it.
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With health issues I have only managed to shoot two trail walks with neither being recently. For the first one I took my 7 lb .45 flintlock longrifle. I did okay on that one. On the second one I used my 8 lb .40 flint longrifle. I did fairly well in that one. That particular .40 was turned into another .45 by Bobby Hoyt and is only 7 lbs 11 oz. So if I were to go to another I'd likely take one of them. The first one , 7 lb .45, has collected most of the deer I've killed. Either one of the flintlock .45s would go with me.
There is one other .45 that a percussion that's very accurate and has won 1st or 2nd in a few postal matches. The barrel is 15/16" X 25" and has never hunted, just targets. Though it weighs only 6 lb 2 oz the barrel is heavy and hangs at the muzzle. The only rifle I've owned that was a better offhand shooter was an E. Virginia rifle flintlock. 9.5 lbs X 42" X .50 X straight barrel that would hang steady like a rock on the X of a bullseye.
A bit less likely candidate is my svelt .50 X 38" X "B" wgt flintlock at 7 lbs 2 oz. I shoot it fairly well but it has little muzzle "hang".