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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / Re: What muzzeloaders were used ...
« Last post by RobD on Today at 10:19:51 AM »Where does the Hawken fit into the mountain man era?
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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / Re: What muzzeloaders were used ...
« Last post by rollingb on Today at 09:57:18 AM »The American fur trade era (roughly 1800-1840) was largely dominated by lightweight flintlock muskets known as Northwest Trade Guns, popular with Native Americans for general hunting, alongside heavier, more accurate rifles like the Hawken , and large-caliber "dragoon" pistols for traders and mountain men, with firearms evolving from early flintlocks to percussion systems by the end of the era.
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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / What muzzeloaders were used ...
« Last post by RobD on Today at 09:08:35 AM »...by the pioneer mountain men and later in the Civil War?
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Accoutrements / Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Last post by RobD on Today at 05:48:23 AM »Hadn't heard about issues with muzzleloaders and Lead Sleds, or with any manner of "locking down" a muzzleloader testing I'd done so twice that I can recall, with accuracy testing of several flinter rifles. But I can see yer point with regards to breakage at the wrist area, which for most well proportioned muzzleloaders is quite a small area. I will take your experiences under advisement, and thank you!
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Accoutrements / Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Last post by Second-rate Marksman on Today at 12:45:16 AM »I'm not a big fan of lead sleds for muzzleloaders, Rob. They're undeniably effective with modern smokeless rifles, but muzzleloaders are a different animal altogether. Over the years I'd heard plenty of stories about cracked stocks caused by lead sled use on traditional guns, and I'll admit-- I used to dismiss them as anecdotal or overblown.
That changed when it happened to me.
I cracked the wrist on my .50 T/C Renegade while shooting nothing more than a square load off of a new Caldwell DFT2. No hot-rodding, no abuse-- just the rigid, unforgiving nature of the sled transferring recoil and stress straight into what was apparently the weakest part of this rifle. Unlike modern rifles, muzzleloaders aren't designed to be locked immobile under recoil, and when they can't move naturally, something has to give.
While lead sleds certainly have their place, I don't believe that place is behind a muzzleloader. I'm not suggesting that using one will inevitably spell the end of a traditional long rifle, but there are enough well-documented horror stories floating around to give any careful shooter pause.
That changed when it happened to me.
I cracked the wrist on my .50 T/C Renegade while shooting nothing more than a square load off of a new Caldwell DFT2. No hot-rodding, no abuse-- just the rigid, unforgiving nature of the sled transferring recoil and stress straight into what was apparently the weakest part of this rifle. Unlike modern rifles, muzzleloaders aren't designed to be locked immobile under recoil, and when they can't move naturally, something has to give.
While lead sleds certainly have their place, I don't believe that place is behind a muzzleloader. I'm not suggesting that using one will inevitably spell the end of a traditional long rifle, but there are enough well-documented horror stories floating around to give any careful shooter pause.
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TMA Raffles and Drawings / Re: 2025 Nov./Dec. TMA Bi-Monthly Drawing
« Last post by rollingb on December 30, 2025, 08:41:50 PM »Only a little more than 24 hours left until our TMA Nov./Dec. Bi-Monthly Cash Drawing for $100.00 so if you are a TMA Contributing Member and you don't have your name in the hat yet, you might consider doing so and getting in on the fun. 
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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / Re: A Farmer Militia Fowler for AWI Reenacting
« Last post by RobD on December 30, 2025, 09:53:09 AM »Does that bayonet slide right down the end of the barrel?
Yes - the plug bayonet is friction secured into the muzzle of a bbl.
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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / Re: A Farmer Militia Fowler for AWI Reenacting
« Last post by No Powder on December 30, 2025, 09:32:08 AM »Does that bayonet slide right down the end of the barrel?
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Accoutrements / Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Last post by RobD on December 30, 2025, 07:53:20 AM »Bags or bipods are fine, I use 'em all the time, but none will eliminate the shooter like locking down a gun in a Lead Sled.
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Traditional Muzzleloaders for Reenactors / A Farmer Militia Fowler for AWI Reenacting
« Last post by RobD on December 30, 2025, 07:49:53 AM »Particularly early on in the American Revolutionary War (AWI), as the ranks of militia farmers joined the Continental Army, they brought with them their smoothbore firelocks used for sustenance and protection. Smoothbores (musket, fowler) were a requirement for joining the Army. As a backup weapon, 'hawks and knives were employed. Also, plug bayonets were fairly easy to create and some had gunsmiths move back or remove or increase the height of the front sight, cut back the forestock, and have a spike bayonet with socket made. There are existing examples of 18th century plug bayonets and bayonet modified fowlers.
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Getting into Rev war reenacting will find an appropriate firelock the biggest expense. Proper attire would be next, along with sundry accoutrements required to create a soldier's army kit. The source for an appropriate military musket will either be offshore built (current DGW pricing shows a completed 1777 Charleville at $1650 and 2nd Land Bess kit at $1375) or custom built (far more expensive by comparison). I have had, and have sold off, these three Pedersoli muskets - 2nd Land Bess kit, Charleville 1763/1766 kit, St. Etienne 1777.
However, do consider going with a fowler. The Kibler Fowler in either 20ga (.615 bore) or 16ga (.662 bore) will make a dandy militia fowler that'd be perfectly period correct and sports a long 44" bbl. And there will be huge bonuses - the current cost will be $1390 (maple or cherry), the build is quite easy, the total weight will be less than 7 pounds as compared to 11-12 pounds for a Bess or Charlie, the cost of a plug bayonet is less than $75.
Equally important is that the completed firelock will be superior to any offshore musket - you will have an excellent traditional smoothbore for ball or shot, for hunting or target or plinking.
NOW, one can wait for the forthcoming Kibler 1st Land Bess kit - I know I am! - and like all of Jim's kits I expect it will be nothing short of fabulous. Considerations - it will be a perfect musket for either Redcoat or Patriot alike, it will fit any time period of the AWI since the 1st Land Bess was a 1756 creation, it will be an excellent shooter, but it will be in the 10-11 pound weight range, it will cost more (maybe a lot more) than the Kibler Fowler, and it may be offered as late as June 2026, if AWI 2026 reenacting is a goal. However, I expect the Kibler Bess kit to be an easy build that could be accomplished in less than one day (you build kits completely as working firearms first, then disassemble for stock finishing) and 2 to 3 days to complete clear coating, stain on walnut can be optional.
Just built my 4th Kibler Fowler in 16ga, plain maple (mine did come with a bit of flame in the wood), added a plug bayonet and a simple sling (not really needed, but handy to have) out of herring bone webbing. 6lbs 6ozs sans any bayonet. 7lbs 5ozs with a plug bayonet and 77" total length. A joy to carry and use! (For the nit pickers, yes, I've since installed a brass flash guard - can't do reenacting without one!)
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Getting into Rev war reenacting will find an appropriate firelock the biggest expense. Proper attire would be next, along with sundry accoutrements required to create a soldier's army kit. The source for an appropriate military musket will either be offshore built (current DGW pricing shows a completed 1777 Charleville at $1650 and 2nd Land Bess kit at $1375) or custom built (far more expensive by comparison). I have had, and have sold off, these three Pedersoli muskets - 2nd Land Bess kit, Charleville 1763/1766 kit, St. Etienne 1777.
However, do consider going with a fowler. The Kibler Fowler in either 20ga (.615 bore) or 16ga (.662 bore) will make a dandy militia fowler that'd be perfectly period correct and sports a long 44" bbl. And there will be huge bonuses - the current cost will be $1390 (maple or cherry), the build is quite easy, the total weight will be less than 7 pounds as compared to 11-12 pounds for a Bess or Charlie, the cost of a plug bayonet is less than $75.
Equally important is that the completed firelock will be superior to any offshore musket - you will have an excellent traditional smoothbore for ball or shot, for hunting or target or plinking.
NOW, one can wait for the forthcoming Kibler 1st Land Bess kit - I know I am! - and like all of Jim's kits I expect it will be nothing short of fabulous. Considerations - it will be a perfect musket for either Redcoat or Patriot alike, it will fit any time period of the AWI since the 1st Land Bess was a 1756 creation, it will be an excellent shooter, but it will be in the 10-11 pound weight range, it will cost more (maybe a lot more) than the Kibler Fowler, and it may be offered as late as June 2026, if AWI 2026 reenacting is a goal. However, I expect the Kibler Bess kit to be an easy build that could be accomplished in less than one day (you build kits completely as working firearms first, then disassemble for stock finishing) and 2 to 3 days to complete clear coating, stain on walnut can be optional.
Just built my 4th Kibler Fowler in 16ga, plain maple (mine did come with a bit of flame in the wood), added a plug bayonet and a simple sling (not really needed, but handy to have) out of herring bone webbing. 6lbs 6ozs sans any bayonet. 7lbs 5ozs with a plug bayonet and 77" total length. A joy to carry and use! (For the nit pickers, yes, I've since installed a brass flash guard - can't do reenacting without one!)
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