Re-Staining a stock.

[Rick Villerot]

I have a stock that I stained with fieberling leather dye & it's getting a little liter in color.

Now I have finished it a year ago with multiple hand rubbed coats of linsead oil so will it take stain ? ? ?

And would using tung oil seal it a little better & prevent anymore fadeing ? ? ?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it...

[pathfinder]

You could try it,but I doubt it'll work. Adding aditional coats won't stop the fadding out. Is it fadding in the area's you hold or all over. Most oil type stains will fade over time due to type of pigments used as opposed to spirit type stains. Best to sand lightly and re-stain. Can you post pic's?

[Captchee]

if you used linseed , then yes you can re stain it .
 In fact I often stain after  applying a flood coat of linseed

 Part of the problem when folks use leather dye is that they don’t do it right .
 See leather dye does not penetrate the wood well .
As such when  its subject to the air  it  fades over time  because  linseed by itself ,even if its boiled linseed  , is not a very good protect ant .
So what happens is folks dye their stock .  Then use linseed oil to finish . Over time  things start to fade..
 See linseed is only about 10% impervious to moisture and air .
 Where Tung oil is around 90% .
 What that means is  that  with linseed . Air and moisture moves through the oil  very easily . This is why you can stain through it and get a reasonable  blending  on a repair  .
 You try to do that with Tung oil  and the color will never quite match without suspending it .

 So here is what I do . Now I should note I do this on all stocks  no mater what stain or dye im using .
 First I stain or dye the stock . Then I come back with multiple coats of linseed, starting with a flood coat . then normally 4-7 finish coats  that are wet sanded between coats .

 that’s followed by to light coats of Tung oil  .
 Now what happens is that the linseed then stops the Tung oil from penetrating the wood .
  However it does allow it to bind with the surface of the linseed .

 Here is the benefit .
 By doing the above ,  you get the   high protection of the Tung oil . Which doesn’t let your   less penetrating stains or dyes  fade as easily  .

 you also get the repair quality of the linseed . So if say down the road you want to re stain the stock  or have to repair a section of it . All you have to do is sand through the Tung oil
And dow to the linseed  .  Do the repair and then restrain and blend .
 Because the linseed has held the tung oil out of the wood  and with the linseed only being 10% impervious , 90% of the color of you stain or dye , goes right through.

BUT if you used only Tung oil as the finish, it will penitrate very deep into the wood . its very hard to near impossable to get through the tung oil so that the wood will take a  even stain .

[pathfinder]

I always thin the first coats of BLO with turpinetine,50/50 to get the penetration I need. 50 years of re-finishing has taught me that.

[Captchee]

I always thin the first coats of BLO with turpinetine,50/50 to get the penetration I need. 50 years of re-finishing has taught me that.

 

[Rick Villerot]

Cap' if I was to put some BLO & then tung oil would it keep it from fading more?

I like the color right now just dont want it to get any liter, I did use the alcohol based leather dye.

Maybe I should get some Dangler stain & re-do it, the only thing is what if comes out & I dont like it.

Wha'cha think ? ? ?

[Captchee]

Cap' if I was to put some BLO & then tung oil would it keep it from fading more?

. Ya you can . . you should only need a couple light coats of linseed and then one even light coat of tung .
But be sure to  clean the stock up good  so as to remove any surface oils  first

 
 what i see is  fading as described by pathfinder . IE its in the areas where you hold the  rifle .
  My bet is the color is  getting more milky  in those areas .
  Through the years I have had a number of stocks , stained with many different stains and dyes to include Fortis , that have done just what yours is doing .
 I have often wondered if  this has to do  more with the acidic nature of my skin then with anything else .

 As pathfinder noted . If when you applied the linseed , you did not dilute the  flood coat , then the linseed isn’t that deep into your stock .
  That combined with the a stain that doesn’t penetrate all that deep  and  you have all the color right on the surface so with wear , it gets light .
 The other thing to remember is  as I said before . Linseed is only about 10% impervious.
As such , some commonly used gun oils can go through  into the wood  and even discolor the stain  .

 Now don’t get me wrong here .  BLO has been used  for ever on gin stocks  .
 Just keep in mind that its not the strongest of oils  . As such  as a stock wears  over time , it will need re oiled now and then

[pathfinder]

I think She looks fine!

This is Pox,bird's eye southern gun I built @ 25years ago and was about the color of your gun when I finished her,just gets better with age!

[Captchee]

I think She looks fine!

This is Pox,bird's eye southern gun I built @ 25years ago and was about the color of your gun when I finished her,just gets better with age!

agreed pathfinder . IMO a gun is like a fine wine . it only gets better with age.

  but sometimes that age is telling us something . right now im working on a sxs that has  a broken stock .
 over time the cleaning oils have gotten in  and around the locks  and weakened the stock to the point it finally broke . The wood is unbelievably oil soaked .

 Im not saying that’s what is happening with the  gun in question .
 Myself  it looks like it possibly just needs a little oil .
 But its hard to tell from looking at the photo .
 Like you , I think It looks good . Color seems to be fine . Its just lightening in the areas where it receives the most use

[Rick Villerot]

Thanks Guy's, I'am going to put a little blo & then tung oil. Thanks for the info !

[Rick Villerot]

All right fellars, I put three coats on the gun & now she is a little shiny. The tung oil I used was the not so shiny one.

Question is, Now does it look not so period correct. Did they have tung oil back then or some form of laquer ? ? ?

I believe the wood did need some protection from moisture, am I correct.

Alos forgive me if'n I sound like a pilgrim, this is the first gun I have done.

Thanks for the info.

[Captchee]

Let it dry for a couple more days . Then come back and  nock of the shine with burlap or  0000 wool

 As to  your question about oils

Lacquers, no . not as we know it today .that  would be around 1850 if I recall  .  

 So basically you  would probably have seen  Oils , Varnishes , Shellacs and Wax’s . With the last being a mater of debate for some concerning gun stocks .
 
Tung oil  was as I understand it , not imported into north America tell around 1900
 It like linseed is a true oil  that’s   the result of pressing . Where linseed  oil comes from a seed of the Flax plant  . Tung oil comes from a nut .specifically  a Tung tree nut .
 Both  are whats called drying oils  . IE they will dry on their own / well I should say dry to what we think is dry .
 Lets say you used  true linseed oil .  Which you probably did not .
 What  you would have used would have been Flax seed oil .
 If you went down and bought a  finish grade oil ,  labeled linseed Oil . Then you used either boiled linseed or a mix of  boiled linseed with driers added . Driers are added to the oil to speed up the dry time . depending on the driers added . they also can allow  the oil to  be built up  with repeated applications
Same with Tung oil . What you get  in the furniture department is a mix of Tung oils and other driers .  Thus its really  technically more of a varnish …
 If you would have used True Tung oil  or  Flaxseed  oil without driers or boiling , you would have still been waiting for the first coat to dry  if applied when you first posted .


  Then you have shellac
 Most folks don’t realize that this also is a natural product . Here in the Americas.
 Many of the plains  peoples  used it as a sealer  rendering it from the fluid obtained from the eyes of the buffalo  .
 
 You know  when you leave your car under a tree that’s infested with aphids and you get that white coating  on the car that’s a real PITA to get off . Well that’s basically a form of shellac  .

As to what was used on period guns .
Well we know  that the British used varnish a lot on their military grade weapons .
  As far as civilian weapons . Most believe boiled linseed would have been the finish of choice . But   in a true period documentation  source  the verdict IMO is still  one of debate. There just isn’t any real  pinpoint information .  But what we do have is  a lot of information on period furniture finishes. As such many folks  believe that    such applications would naturally also be applied as gun finishes . But again this is speculation and thus a mater of some debate