Where can you get Russian muzzleloaders?

[Salty_Possum]

I got a buddy of mine that's into Russian history and he got my interest peeked. He wondered if there are any historical Russian muzzleloaders out there. I told him there was British, French, German, etc. out there, but I don't know of any replicas of 1500's-1800's Russian muzzleloaders. Anyone know if they are available?

[Stormrider51]

Check with the folks at The Rifle Shoppe.  They offer some Russian styled guns.

Storm

[Uncle Russ]

Thanks Sr51!  

The Rifle Shoppe, Inc. - Russian Arms

I noticed that the above link provides mostly parts, and part numbers, with costs.
Having little to no interest in Russian made Muzzleloaders previously, I never gave the matter much thought.
However, the following statements kinda caught me off guard....guess I wasn't expecting this at all, so now my interest has peaked quite a bit......
1843 Russian Luttich Carbine
"This is the first regulation percussion Rifle used in the Russian Army. It is an almost exact copy of the British Brunswick. This is the first model with the 3 leaf rear sight. These shot a pointed bullet with projection on the sides to fit in the two groove .70 caliber barrel. One of the longest shots in the history of muzzle loading arms was fired from one of these rifles. These were made in Liege for the Russian Army. The length of the barrel is 30 3/16". The lock plate is marked “J. Malharre A Liege.”.

"1845 Russian Musket
The Russian’s copied the French 1842 almost exactly, except all the mountings are in brass. The stocks will have a raised cheek piece instead of the cutout of the French. The barrel is 42 3/4" long in .71 caliber. In 1854 many of the M1845’s were sent into the arsenals to be rifled and fitted with the 1843 Luttich carbine sight.

(My emphasis with the underline and bold print.)

From reading this, one would think Russia depended mostly on the rest of Europe, ie, Belgium, Germany, Brittan, or Western Europe in general, to proved the arms they were using during this time frame.
This could be because of the poor economics in Russia for a hundred or so years following the introduction of both the flintlock and later on the Percussion......

Someone more versed than myself should comment on the subject as my own comments are noting more than conjecture / speculation on my part.
It just doesn't seem right that a world power would go through a couple hundred of years without their own Arms Manufacturing / Development, and then suddenly become recognized as a Super Power sixty years later.

Sir Michael may have some views on this, if he stops by, but from my really limited research I don't particularly care for what I'm finding....it's gotta be a lot deeper than what I have been reading.

Good question, good subject!

Uncle Russ......

[gunmaker]

Russian .350 smoothbore fowler by Ivan Permjakov--1770.  They could & did make good guns, search Tula arsenal.  This one is in the book GUN a visual history by Dr. C. McNab.  It's just that their "Russians"  not much publicity.  Remember they kicked the you know what out of the frogs.  Napoleon took 450,000 G.I.s to Russia & returned with 50,000  !!!

[Salty_Possum]

Thanks gents! I've never built a muzzleloader before and have no woodworking experience either so the Riffle shoppe is not an option sadly unless I can pay someone to build the gun for me if I ever have the $$$ to get one.

[Stormrider51]

Salty - You might want to call and see if they offer finished or semi-finished guns.  Many muzzleloading firearm makers offer kits where the difficult work is done and you finish it.

Russ - No offense to the Russians but they do have a long history of adopting successful technologies from other nations.  They weren't alone.  At one point most of the European nations were using muskets that looked suspiciously French.

Storm

[Sir Michael]

Not to mention the number of guns used by the British Army and commercial companies that used guns made in Liege.

[mario]

Salty - You might want to call and see if they offer finished or semi-finished guns.  Many muzzleloading firearm makers offer kits where the difficult work is done and you finish it.

Fairly certain TRS is parts only (although they offer complete locks). And parts can sometimes be a LOOOONG time coming. A 1+ year wait is not unheard of.

Russ - No offense to the Russians but they do have a long history of adopting successful technologies from other nations.  They weren't alone.  At one point most of the European nations were using muskets that looked suspiciously French.

The Russian 1808 flintlock musket is almost identical to the French 1777 "Charleville". The cock is built a little heavier and the markings are different, but otherwise they are almost indistinguishable.

An option would be to purchase a Pedersoli or India-made 1777, replace the cock with one from TRS and re-do the markings.

Mario

[Fletcher]

Finding an authentic Russian ML in Russia these days may be harder than finding 'Waldo'

Then again - in Russia - Waldo finds YOU  

[Loyalist Dave]

Finding an authentic Russian ML in Russia these days may be harder than finding 'Waldo'

Afghanistan?  If it's not "authentic" then it will be an authentic hand-made copy.

LD

[Geezer in NH]

Uh try Russia, but with the o"s latest decree FGABT

[Kermit]

The Russians--and others--were smitten with all things French. French was the language spoken in the Russian Court, and you demonstrated your nobility by how well you spoke French. French was for a loooooong time the international language of diplomacy. My wife was sent to Neuchatel, Switzerland to study French where she encountered the children of diplomats, nobility, and politicians from all over the world. Apparently Neuchatel was regarded as THE place to learn the purest French.

There should be no surprise that the Russians either purchased French firearms or manufactured their own to French style. Look at their historic art, architecture, and fashion.

First part of this may be of some small interest:
Firearms in Russia