yet another screwdriver flinter "kit"

[RobD]

a traditions .50 "mountain rifle", whatever that means.  i've had more than a few spanish built guns in the past, all kits, and their big bugaboo was the breech plug - couldn't remove it with proper pro tools.  the traditions muzzy manual even alludes ....

Important: Never remove the bolster/drum or breech plug from the barrel. They have been installed at the factory such that they interlock with each other for maximum lockup strength. The removal or alteration of these key parts will compromise the performance of your gun, void your warranty, and can create an unsafe situation.

of course i'll at least attempt the plug removal, in order to anti-seize grease the threads.

DGW had this kit on sale for $390/shipped.  the sale price was more than right and the "kit" has a full 32" barrel just like a GPR, twin wedges, brass patch box, and DSTs.  have no clue what the wood is, perhaps beech or maybe euro walnut, don't matter.  the components i see in the image reeks of investarms.  hope the plug is investarms quality, too.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

[Ohio Joe]

Say Rob, maybe you already know this but I'll mention it anyway. The bolster must be removed before the plug.

How I know this is that I shorten a CVA barrel one time that had this same setup... So, after cutting the rear off the barrel  and tapping it for a plug and such - I played around with that bolster and plug and it was the tightest thing I ever took apart.

When putting it back together (just for sh_ts & giggles), I could not get it lined back up... No matter to me, I wasn't going to re'use it,,, but I did use what I cut off to make "reference tap thread ports" for check threads of muzzle loading parts... Wish I could find that bugger...

 

I just realized that's a flintlock kit you got there... The one I tinkered with was a cap-lock... Not sure how that flintlock breech plug is set in??? 

 

[RobD]

right, it's a flinter with a touch hole liner.      

i have all the proper tools for removing any manner of breech plug, offshore or onshore.  i think the last spanish plug i tried to remove was about 5 or 6 years ago (?), and i just couldn't get it to budge.  i think cva and traditions were using tapered thread plugs, and if so that's the issue.  this is a new-ish 2018 barrel and perhaps things have changed. 
i'll know late next week or early the following week.   

[Winter Hawk]

Pull the touch hole!  It's like the CVA where it actually goes through the antechamber to the other side and screws in there also.  What I was told, for the old CVA anyway, is that they are actually the bolster for percussion cut off even with the barrel flat.  They were screwed in, then drilled from the muzzle to connect to the powder.  On the old Tradrag site there was a guy who had one which they neglected to do this and he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't fire.  I guess this was not an uncommon problem!

~Kees~

[RobD]

Pull the touch hole!  It's like the CVA where it actually goes through the antechamber to the other side and screws in there also.  ...

WHAT???  don't understand that at all ....

OR, do you mean the touch hole goes into the barrel and then into the extension of the patent breech, as in the pedersoli patent breech image below, unlike the GPR patent chamber drawing above it ?

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[Ohio Joe]

Here's what I think Kees is referring to, and CVA just cut the drum off and tapped for a vent.

From what I can see on an old CVA Flintlock Mountain Rifle that my future son-in-law got from Rondo at Rondy last year - CVA did in fact cut the drum off the bolster and tapped it for a vent. I can see the outer ring of the bolster with the vent in the middle of that existing hole where they tapped in the vent.

[RobD]

if so, WOW!  that's WORSE than what pedersoli does!

IF it was a cap gun, then removing the bolster would allow the patent breech plug to be removed, but there's no way to remove the patent breech if the bolster was cut off and then drilled and tapped for a touch hole liner.  stupid stupid stupid, for the consumer ... win win win for the manufacturer.

[Ohio Joe]

if so, WOW!  that's WORSE than what pedersoli does!

IF it was a cap gun, then removing the bolster would allow the patent breech plug to be removed, but there's no way to remove the patent breech if the bolster was cut off and then drilled and tapped for a touch hole liner.  stupid stupid stupid, for the consumer ... win win win for the manufacturer.

You are exactly right, Rob... And you can bet this all this has to do with insurance responsibilities.

At least I'm glad we found this information before you got started.

[RobD]

joe, yer a lifesaver!  or at least a money saver!!!

i'm gonna cancel the order first thing tomorrow morning!

[Ohio Joe]

joe, yer a lifesaver!  or at least a money saver!!!

i'm gonna cancel the order first thing tomorrow morning!

Well throw the credit to Kees, as I did not know this about the flintlock breech set up until he mentioned it. Good save Kees!!!

[RobD]

Pull the touch hole!  It's like the CVA where it actually goes through the antechamber to the other side and screws in there also.  What I was told, for the old CVA anyway, is that they are actually the bolster for percussion cut off even with the barrel flat.  They were screwed in, then drilled from the muzzle to connect to the powder.  On the old Tradrag site there was a guy who had one which they neglected to do this and he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't fire.  I guess this was not an uncommon problem!

~Kees~

big kudos to you for setting the record straight!!!       

[Winter Hawk]

Joe nailed it!

I found out about this the hard way.  My hodgepodge rifle started out as a Deer Creek (CVA) in .45 caliber and a 15/16" barrel.  I compared its weight to a .50 CVA Mountain Rifle and it was about (IIRC) a pound and a quarter heavier.  I then thought that if 1/32" was taken off each flat it would be about as heavy as the .50.  Ed Rayle did that for me at a decent price and I ended up with a barrel 7/8" across the flats, and lighter than the Mountain Rifle.

All was well until I had run 100 or so shots through her when I noticed a ring forming around the touch hole liner.  Somehow the milling process had loosened it, or something.  Anyway, I now had fire coming out around the liner - bad news! 
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Captchee was so kind as to see what he could do with it, which was nothing, really.  He then got a Colerain barrel of the same dimensions, installed a regular flat breech plug and set it up with the under rib, etc. which is on it now, and I gave him the old barrel to use as he wants.

In retrospect, I could have had him cut off the breech end and re-breech it, move the underlugs forward the same distance and shorten the rib.  This would have saved the price of a new barrel but I thought of that much later, after the fact. 

So Rob, you could still get the kit if it's cheap enough and just modify the barrel with a flat faced breech plug, as long as it is short enough to allow you to install a regular touch hole.  Just a thought.

~Kees~

[Ohio Joe]

Kees, that's just plain scary looking! Glad you didn't pursue that setup any further. Only thing that could of been done with that separation (would and was) to cut it off and re'breech it...  Man that's spooky!!!

[RobD]

kees, i wouldn't touch that traditions gun with a ten foot pole. 

shoddy rube goldberg designs are not my kinda thing.

having to fix a problem i just bought is more than stupid.

i'll say it again - any current offshore investarms gun will be the one to buy if you don't wanna spend a lot on a new trad muzzy.