Rifle Tests 1800

[Sir Michael]

In February 1800 the British Army Board of Ordnance conducted a series of tests on rifles under consideration for adoption by the Army.

The initial test data that survives was based on removing the barrels from the rifles and attaching them to a mortar bed weighing 2800 lbs and firing them at an 11x9 ft target located 300 yds away using the ball and powder charge recommended by the individual builder.  Rifles were submitted by not only British gun makers but also gun makers from France Germany, Spain, Holland, and America.

Of interest to me in part is the rate of twist rifles tested.  From Bailey's book British Military Flintlock Rifles the rate of twist for seven of the rifles tested were:

1:28.5
1:33.33
1:37.27
1:51.4
1:51.87
1:55.8
1:120

The size of the balls shot varied from 11 - 22 balls/lb

After examining the targets the board selected Baker's rifle with the 1:120 twist.

[Bigsmoke]

Interesting also that there were so many with faster twists and only one with a slow twist, which won out.  Hmmmmm....  curious.

[sse]

I've seen other references that suggest much slower twist rates for a patched round ball than in barrels usually offered, to improve accuracy, in the range of that last one in the list.  I think some suppliers will make one by special order.

[Dphariss]

I think Baker went TOO slow. My 16 bore rifle (.662 ball) with an 80 twist, .008 deep grooves and very narrow lands has never blown a patch and will shoot as much powder and a person can stand too shoot I have shot as much as 160 grains for FF Swiss.
A friend with a 72 twist 69 cal has found that it will not "strip" no matter how much powder is used.
And the larger diameter balls were the ones that caused trouble with the fast twists the English liked to use (Bakers experiments were largely ignored by the civilian gun makers).

Both rifles mentioned above seem to shoot better than the Baker seemed to.
People who agonize over RB twists have too much time on their hands.
For 54 and below with decent groove depth and a 48" twist will have no disadvantage compared to a 66 or 72.
IF there is a proper sample of barrels used. Comparing one of each will simply show which barrel of the three is the most accurate.
Changing a twist from 48" to 56" (8" reduction) hoping for some magic increase in RB accuracy is LA-LA land stuff.
Dan

[Sir Michael]

Jon, the 1:120 twist rifle submitted by Baker won the competition.  Part of the selection criteria besides the smallest group for 12 shots was the propensity or lack of it to foul, again Baker's rifle proved to be much less prone to this than the others.

The original gun tested was bored to take 12 balls/# where the production models that were fielded were bored to take 20 balls/# with the other design features essentially the same.

Dan, Baker for the most part used rifling with 7 square lands and grooves or equal width with a dept of .015.  However, on the Carbine models the standard seems to have been 7 angular grooves with the width either equal to the grooves.  However, Ketland in 1790 used 7 lands 1/2 the width of the angular grooves.

Of further note the 1776 Pattern Rifle had a 1:27" twist with 7 square cut lands and grooves of equal width.  The Ferguson rifle had a 1:56" twist with 8 lands and angular grooves with the that slightly narrower than the lands.

I tend to believe that the proper twist for any rifle is that twist that works the best.  All of my rifles have 1:66" twist and they shoot far better than I so I'm happy.  But then I'm a creature of habit.  I also believe that the black powder shooter when shooting off-hand induces far more errors than any of the technical variations of the weapon being shot.  

[Uncle Russ]

I also believe that the black powder shooter when shooting off-hand induces far more errors than any of the technical variations of the weapon being shot.

I think that pretty much nailed it, and along with that,  I have to agree with Dan's assessment that those who agonize over this factor have w-a-y to much time on their hands.

Uncle Russ...

[Loyalist Dave]

You also need to know that the targets used by British riflemen in 1800 were 24" wide by 72" tall, and a hit anywhere were all scored equal.  A rifleman was expected to hit the target five out of 6 shots, two days in a row, at 300 yards.  A bit of a different standard I think than what we consider "accuracy", and what we are looking for then, when we talk about twist.  

LD

[Sir Michael]

Dave, you are correct what was considered acceptable back then especially for the military is very different from what we consider acceptable today for target shooting and hunting.  

Regarding targets and shooting, the following is an extract from the 1801 Regulations for the Rifle Corps.

Part II, Article II, Care of Arms and Target Practice

Shooting Ranges:
90 yds for Recruits
140 yds – Second Range
200 yds – Third Range
300 yds – Fourth Range

Targets
Round 4 ft in dia. with a 1 ½ in Dia Bulls Eye and three concentric black circles 2 in. wide as follows:
1 – 4 in. from the center of the Bulls Eye
2 – 9 in. from the center of the Bulls Eye
3 – 15 in. from the center of the Bulls Eye
The distance for each ring is to the inside edge of the ring.

This target is always to be fixed in the ground, so that the centre of the eye is from 3 feet 4 inches to 4 feet 2 inches from it; the extreme height of the target thereby not exceeding the extreme height of the tallest man. As this measurement is of consequence, every target which the Quarter Master issues, will be marked at these two heights, on the leg, which each time will be observed on its being planted; every regimental cane being exactly 36 inches will aid this measurement.

Man shaped target
1 – 6 ft
1 – 5 ft 5 in

The other target will be the screen or figure target; it will be made of canvas, stretched on a wooden frame. which is to be 7 feet high, and 3 feet broad, supported in the rear by a small prop, similar to a gravel sifter, only perpendicular; a figure will be marked on it, with arms folded across the breast, or in the position of ordered arms, never exceeding 6 feet in height, and 2 in breadth; the space between the extreme points, as head, feet, and shoulders, and the edge of the canvas being equally divided. The colour of the figure and of the ground-work will be always different, but may be occasionally varied. In the exact centre of the body will be described a circle or ring, similar to the inner circle or bull's eye on the round target, viz 8 inches diameter.

Qualification
3rd Class  - Marksman
4 out of 6 in the round target at, at least 200 yds or
3 out of 6 in the man target at, at least 200 yds
2 out of 3 days for two months

2nd Class – Ordinary Rifleman
2 out of 6 in the round target at, at least 140 yds or
2 out of 6 in the man target at, at least 140 yds
2 days out of three

1st Class – Awkward Class
Anyone not able to make 2nd Class

You may also find this of interest.



This image is located on the following WEB page which also include additional information regarding the target and the rifle.

http://www.95thrifles.com/Old-Website/A ... age534.htm

All very interesting historical information.  At least I think so.

[Dphariss]

Jon, the 1:120 twist rifle submitted by Baker won the competition.  Part of the selection criteria besides the smallest group for 12 shots was the propensity or lack of it to foul, again Baker's rifle proved to be much less prone to this than the others.

The original gun tested was bored to take 12 balls/# where the production models that were fielded were bored to take 20 balls/# with the other design features essentially the same.

Dan, Baker for the most part used rifling with 7 square lands and grooves or equal width with a dept of .015.  However, on the Carbine models the standard seems to have been 7 angular grooves with the width either equal to the grooves.  However, Ketland in 1790 used 7 lands 1/2 the width of the angular grooves.

Of further note the 1776 Pattern Rifle had a 1:27" twist with 7 square cut lands and grooves of equal width.  The Ferguson rifle had a 1:56" twist with 8 lands and angular grooves with the that slightly narrower than the lands.

I tend to believe that the proper twist for any rifle is that twist that works the best.  All of my rifles have 1:66" twist and they shoot far better than I so I'm happy.  But then I'm a creature of habit.  I also believe that the black powder shooter when shooting off-hand induces far more errors than any of the technical variations of the weapon being shot.  

The near mint English 1776 Dewitt Bailey details in "British Military Flintlock Rifles" as 1:56 twist rate. 8 square grooves with about equal lands and grooves about .010" deep. .630 bore and .650 groove.
The Hanoverian made 1776 has the faster twist and 7 grooves.

Dan