JBP vs Goex

[Hanshi]

I finally got around to chronographing Jacks Battle Powder and now can compare the results with Goex.  The rifle for both sessions is an early Lancaster .40 flintlock.  fired was an 89grn ball and ticking patch lubed with Hoppes.  Sky screens were set up about 18ft from the muzzle.  The only variable in the test was the fact that the ticking patches used with the JBP measured .024" as opposed to .018" for Goex.  Both powders are 3F.

                                   Goex
                  30grns -------------------------1371fps
                  40grns -------------------------1678fps
                  60grns -------------------------1848fps


                                      JBP
                  30grns ------------------------1427fps
                  40grns ------------------------1701fps
                  60grns ------------------------1923fps

This is just for one rifle and needs to be tested with other calibers.  It also falls upon me to repeat the Goex test using the .024" patch as was used with the JBP session.

[sse]

Interesting...........

[Fletcher]

How did you know if the volume weights generate the same pressures?

I would like to find a hotter powder for a lower price but I still want the consistency of GOEX
and the knowledge of safe pressures.

[RiverCat]

I`ve got a feeling the higher velocity can be attributed more to the thicker patches you used with the JBP loads. To get accurate results would require using the same patches with both powder types.  Thicker patches mean the ball will be a tighter fit in the bore generating higher presure and more velocity?

[Uncle Russ]

I`ve got a feeling the higher velocity can be attributed more to the thicker patches you used with the JBP loads. To get accurate results would require using the same patches with both powder types.  Thicker patches mean the ball will be a tighter fit in the bore generating higher presure and more velocity?

Personally, I think you're absolutely spot on.

At the same time I do appreciate Hansi sharing his results...sounds likes there may indeed be an alternative to the high cost of Goex, and Swiss.

FWIW; (which ain't a lot.)
Over the years I have test shot hundreds of loads through several different chronographs while testing / developing different lubes, and I can assure you, all else being equal, the tighter patch will generate a higher velocity every time.

Now, exactly how much more pressure, and just where that pressure peaked is another story as I have never had a way of testing any of this.
Having said that, I feel fairly confident that patch thickness alone should not be a cause for concern as I have seen, on more than just one or two occasions, folks using a mallet to start and seat a thick patched ball in hopes that they could increase pressures enough to flatten the trajectory from 100 to 200yds on the Silhouette Range.

Why is "where" the  pressure peaks important?
Think of it like this:
A car can push a loaded dump truck a fairly long way, but only if he starts from a dead stop and bumper to bumper.
However, should he get a running-go at it.....I think you get the picture.

Same thing as short-starting a patch and ball, if the pressure is allowed to build and peak before the ball reaches the end of the barrel you can well be headed for a wreck....

As long as the pressure is allowed to build as the ball passes through the bore all is well, and along with more pressure you get a higher velocity, and a flatter trajectory.

When I was a young man there was an old saying amongst the old timers of the day that "you should load 'em till they "crack"".
Meaning the sound of a "crack" was much different than the typical sound of a "Booom". the crack indicating pressure had gone up...and that holds true today. A high pressure load will sound much different than a low pressure load.

Those who loaded their rifles to this point with the powder of that time were playing with fire...literally, but 200 & 300 yard "called" shots were not that uncommon.

Sorry for ramblin.......

Uncle Russ...

[Stormrider51]

I was taught that the "load them until they crack" referred to the ball breaking the speed of sound or just over 1,116 fps at sea level.  While it's true that such a load will provide the "flattest" trajectory over a given distance compared to slower balls, it may not be the most accurate.  Still, when working up hunting loads it bears consideration.  Another technique I use is to lay out a white bed sheet in front of the firing position.  Increase powder charges until you find unburned grains of powder on the sheet.  That will pretty much be your maximum usable charge.  Adding more powder will still increase velocity but at a much lower ratio compared to lighter charges.  I think it's obvious that the most efficient powder charge is one where all the powder burns before the projectile exits the muzzle.  Powder that burns in the open air past the end of the barrel contributes nothing but muzzle flash.

Storm

[Hanshi]

There's no reason at all to worry over pressures in modern ML barrels.  They are strong and you'd have to go berserk with your charges to cause problems.  Of course safe reloading practices are a must.

The charges I use (either powder) are well within the specifications of the barrel/caliber.  If it shoots well then that's it.  We are, after all not talking about smokeless.  Other than JBP being 3F only, I can't really tell any difference between it and Goex by sight alone.  I like them both and was simply delighted to see the same accuracy.  If I need 2F or 4F it'll be Goex, of course.  But 3F JBP is excellent and not a compromise at all.

[Uncle Russ]

I agree with you Hanshi...
I still haven't seen any JBP, but I am anxious to give it try once I do find some.

I haven't heard you say, at least that I can remember, but does JBP even make 2F?

Uncle Russ....

[TallTexan]

I agree with you Hanshi...
I still haven't seen any JBP, but I am anxious to give it try once I do find some.
I haven't heard you say, at least that I can remember, but does JBP even make 2F?
Uncle Russ....

Jack's Battle powder comes only in 3f.  Maybe Goex will supply them with non-graphite coated 2f in the future.

[Hanshi]

True, 3F only.  You can get it from "Jacks Powder Keg".  They sell Goex, and Reenactor powder, as well.

[Uncle Russ]

Thanks for the information.  

Uncle Russ...

[Mad Irish Jack]

...sounds likes there may indeed be an alternative to the high cost of Goex, and Swiss.
Uncle Russ...

Russ,
   The best way I know of to beat the higher costs is volume purchasing. It's easy to do with friends or club. My reenacting group orders 25 or 50 pounds of Goex BP at a time. The price recently went up to $14.90 per pound which includes S&H and HazMat. We announce we're going to order. Those who want to order prepay for what they want to get. When we get to 25 or quick enough to order 50 pounds, we order it. When it comes in, the word's put out; guys pick it up or it's taken to an event and picked up. Last spring it was $11.90. But at $14.90 it still beats the pound cost at the gunshop. We use Powder Inc at Powder Inc. - Black Powder for shooters, and more To order from them you need to fill out an application for what your use and need for your orders is. We have three guys that can order. Anyone can go to the site and check out the info.   FYI

[Ranch 13]

How did you know if the volume weights generate the same pressures?

I would like to find a hotter powder for a lower price but I still want the consistency of GOEX
and the knowledge of safe pressures.

 Get ahold of some of Goex's Olde Eynsford powder, very clean, very fast, and has been extremely consistant, and at 16$ a lb for 25 lb case delivered to your door is reasonable enough in price.

[Hanshi]

Yes, JBP is available in 3F only.  At present I'd rate JBP and Goex about equal in accuracy and velocity.  Price was a factor in my last purchase.  I intend on getting my hands on some OE.