Well I would agree Gunmaker .
So let me go into this alittle deep as to what I did , why and how it relates to the original .
Lets start with the stock .
If you look at the comparison photos , you will notice that the original stock was used as a template for the new stock . IE all the shaping minus the cheek piece would be capable of being done on the original stock . In fact I have done it , so I know that for a fact .
Since the original Butt plate was used , the original stock could also have a sliding patch box added if one chose to . My stock is no wider then the original at the butt .
Also notice that I have cut the forearm length back by 2 inchs in comparison to the original stocks length . This was done for no other reason then to give the appearance of a longer more slim forward section. Now in order to continue that we then have to deal with the nose cap .
Sp lets look at the nose cap which is the original one that came with this gun . For what ever reasoning the companies who produce this style of gun , chose to continue the RR channel through the nose cap . The cap is also a casting that very thick . These two things IMO do nothing but add to the fat chunkiness of the rifles appearance and add nose weight. So what I did was file the nose cap down so as to totally remove the RR channel on the nose cap . Thus taking the thickness of the cap down from 3/8 to 1/16th . It also allows for one to then use the original 2 brass screws to mount the nose cap and retain the forestock forward barrel mounting .
It also slims the forestock by around probably 30%.
Again this can be also don’t to the original 2 piece stock .
Now lets talk about the ram rod pipes . Once again these manufactures have seem to have done everything they could to produce a fat rifle . The caliber of the rifle is only 45 . Yet they chose a 3/8 RR . On top of that they used turned pipes mounted to the stock with a single screw. Because of this the pipes have to be large and thick . Because I slimmed down the forestock so much , the original pipes and RR, when laid next to the stock now make up 50% of the thickness of the stock when viewed from the side
IMO un acceptable . But again I have used them in the past with the original 2 piece stock and still ended up with a slimmer rifle . Just not as slim as this one .
Now add into all that , the original entry pipe was just a longer version of the forward pipes . It is then shoved into the forearm RR hole . .
Problem with that is that you then must drill the RR hole in the stock to very near ½ inch
. Which in turn means the belly of the stock is way to thick so as to keep it from splitting out
Why they chose that application is beyond me as once again it makes for fat lines .
But by using a 5/16 RR and replacing the pipes I then could also slim the belly down by just a tad more the ¼ inch
Lets talk about the lock . Originally this was already a flintlock . The owner requested a better quality lock then the original . Frankly it had seen its better days . Now I could have rebuilt it with quality parts. But then what would have been left would have just been the lock plate .. First he suggested the EPL lock from L&R . nice locks and they work. However I don’t like the double throat locks on a long rifle . Frankly I never have . I also wanted a small lock with a thinner lock plate so as to give better lines . Hence the use of the Manton which is very near the Bailies . both of which are just a tad thinner then the Maslin that was used . So again one could have used the original lock if the so wished .
Now to the triggers .
I have never seen one of these rifles or for that mater pistols which the triggers could not be inlet another ¼ inch deeper . In fact they could go deeper yet if it wasn’t for the overly large RR hole which then restricts how much can be taken off the belly of the rifle .
The owner also wanted double set triggers .vs. the original single trigger .
Now I could have used a CVA double set . But the owner wanted a Davis trigger . The Davis trigger is longer between the two triggers .
Thus the original TG would not fit as the trigger bow is about ¼ inch to narrow .So a new TG was in order . However in doing so , what I did was do a TG that was of the same design as the original . If you were to look at that TG from the bottom , you would see that its got a wider spoon and that the over all length is only about ½ longer .
Now because I went with the smaller RR I was also able to inlet all this deeper and once again slim the lines . Again both these things can be done on the original stock . Just not to the same depth or a person would end up sanding through into the factory RR channel when shaping the stock .
Now for the side plate .as I said I never liked the side plate that was factory . How or why it was chosen is beyond me its shape is just FUGGGGGGGLY . But anyway the original is made from 3/32 plate . So I cut a new plate from 3/32 plate . The new plate is also long and slender which then serves to help in the appearance of slenderness. Which was what we were after .
Now all the shaping you see on the stock . Well all that can be done on the original , in fact I do the same shaping when im re working an original stock . There is just so much wood left on the factory stocks that its very much like working with a pre-carve . Most folks don’t realize how much needs to be removed . that’s not really their fault as the factory doesn’t remove it on their finished rifles either . They also never covered anything past finish sanding in their instructions .
The carving can also be done . But it doesn’t finish out as nice because the original wood chosen for the factory stocks is frankly crap and way to soft . But it will carve if one chooses to .
So with all that what you see may seem like everything has been replace . In fact one could say it has . But what we have actually done is held true to the original factory design . Chosen a better wood and trued up their faulty architecture .
Note : again I would like to point out that even though I have added a larger TG , double set triggers , a better lock , a cheek piece and sliding wood patch box , the balance point of this rifle is now 2 inchs back from where the original entry pipe would is on the original stock .
Also while the wood is much harder and heavier then the original Beech , the rifle over all is 11 oz lighter .
NOW , if one doesn’t want of cant go to this extreme, here is a rebuild tutorial that I once had on this forum . It shows showing how one can achieve much the same results with a two piece stock and using all your original parts . And what the rifle would look like if one added a simple CVA brass patch box
Ok so it seems that im getting a lot of PM;s about this so I figured I would do a photo tutorial on how I do these ..
Ok so I got in a old Jukar Kentucky that a lady wants redone as a gift for her son .
So here it is
ok as you can see , its in good shape and in fact i believe it has never been fired . ore does have alittle serface rust , but that will clean up
so now the first thing i do is take the gun apart . i then start with the brass joiner and the nose cap . these will end up defining the shape . as you can see im going to be removing alot of material
once i have these roughed out i then place them back onto the stock . these photos show just how much wood needs to be removed
now next i move back to the trigger and trigger guard . The triggers on these rifles are normally set very low . In other words they have a big fat belly . Also the triggers normally have a lot of slop in them. So what I do is take note of where the sear sets with the hammer down and at full cock ,in relation to the lock plate . i then mark that location on the outside of the lockplate and transfer that mark onto the stock . then remove the lock
this allows me to see just how deep the trigger can go
now you can go deeper but remember that you have to stay in relation to the bottom of the rifle , which we defined by re shaping the brass joiner plate . so going deeper wont help things any .
so as you can see i can move the trigger up just over 1/4 inch . which means the Trigger guard will go up that much as well . again i double check my brass joiner and , all is well . so now we have the trigger up where it belongs
now i deepen the Trigger guard inlet the same amount so that it comes in contact with the trigger plate
while doing the above will not let you get the slim belly that a custom stock will give you , it will slim up the rifle alot .
Ok so now we start shaping . first thing i do is proportion the forearm so that t is the same length as mesured from the front of the lock plate to the front of the comb
thus i have to cut back the forearm, which leanghtend the forestock
now i go up and cut the forearm back about 3/4 of an inch back of the nose cap
with that done i then place the barrel back into the stock and start my shaping bring the forestock down to the shape of the nose cap , thinning it out and at the same time reducing the depth of the Ramrod channel . carry this right on back to a couple inches in front of the lock mortices
ok so now i rough out the general shape of the lock and side plate mortises . making sure that their start and stop points match . while their shapes are diffrent , they must be the same leanght and width . their start and stop points must match or the gun will look twisted when viewd from the top or bottom
i then remove that wood and blend the shape in a cup shape ,up to the tang . the mortices also blend in with the Diagonals flats of the barrel
now i move back and releave the nose of the comb cupping out each side of the nose ,so as to start forming and defining the wrist. which by the way will also slim down alot
this also causes us to need to clean up the shape of the buttstock and blend it all into the buttplate and toe plate
ok so after about 5 hours of work we now have this
to give you some idea how much wood we have taken off this rifle . remember that the barrel pins were flush with the wood of the forestock . if i place the pins back into the stock , they now look like this
ok so , thats it for tonight . I think you all can see just how much these rifles can be cleaned up and how much thinner in fraim the can be .
ill post more in a couple days.
Ok so now we start into the actual final shaping . Cleaning up the lock mortises , wrists , butt and doing a little relief along the RR channel .
Now , myself I have never liked the entry pipe on these so im going to change it .
So laying out my template on a piece of sheet brass I cut it out , bend it around a drill bit that is the same size as the original pipe. Then I silver solder the two together
Now I finish sand to 250 grit .
Then whisker and stain and oil . so this is what we now have
Ok so now after alittle engraving this is what we have . As you can see , much different then what we started with . Notice how defining the wrist , relieving the comb , giving the rifle some lock mortises and taking down and blending the stock into the barrel , really give the rifle a much slimmer and nicer look . doesn’t take all that much work either
so thats it . really not all that much
Topic: CVA/Jukar Long rifle (Read 1511 times)