half stock history?

[RobD]

how prevalent, if at all, were half stocks amongst the pre-colonial to colonial times, and if they were around in any quantity was there an indian trade version?

[twisted_1in66]

To my knowledge, half-stocks didn't even come about until about 1820-1830.  In pre-colonial times there were no firearms.  In early colonial times you had Jaeger rifles, which were large caliber, short, stout, full-stock rifles.  About the time of the F&I war you had Jaeger rifles; transitional rifles as the Jaeger rifles started transforming into longrifles (still full stock); and longrifles.  By the time of the Revolutionary War longrifles of many styles were the norm and those all were full-stock rifles.  That continued as the norm well pass the turn of the century.

Originally for the Indian trade, the guns were long-barreled smoothbores.  They liked the long barrels because they thought they were more accurate.  However, Indians were early adopters of rifles once they became available.  Some feel one of the main reasons that longrifles became so popular and Jaeger styles started disappearing was because the Indians wanted long barrels on their rifles.  May not be the main reason but they certainly were a big enough share of the market to influence it.  

Half-stock rifles didn't really appear until the fur-trade era.  There's a reason they are often called "plains" rifles as the mid-west became the center of manufacture instead of Pennsylvania and Virginia.  Even the hallowed Hawken rifles were originally made as full-stock rifles, at least as the Dad made them while they were still in Ohio.  It wasn't until they moved to St. Louis that they became known for the half-stock rifles.  During the fur-trade era, there were certainly "trade rifles" that were half-stock.

Dan

[cb]

With all due respect but half-stock long guns - both rifles and smoothbores - were being built at least by the English by the 1780's, but were not real common until later. As for trade guns being half-stocked the early 1830's is about the earliest mention that I have.

[twisted_1in66]

With all due respect but half-stock long guns - both rifles and smoothbores - were being built at least by the English by the 1780's, but were not real common until later. As for trade guns being half-stocked the early 1830's is about the earliest mention that I have.

Thanks for that update Chuck.  I had not considered guns in England at that time.  I know that there were some really fine sporting arms in England, but have never really looked into the specifics and was unaware they had half-stock rifles then.  Even with your correction about their earlier appearance in England though, I think it's pretty safe to say a half-stock flintlock trade gun would be extremely unusual in America in the 1700's.

Twisted_1in66
Dan

[mmcalc]

Wasn't the 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle influenced by the English half stock designs?

Mike

[Capt. Jas.]

I've seen a half stocked English rifle from the 1680's. Half stocked sporting guns can be found among the English gentry in paintings from the 1730's