Revolver nipples

[mandack]

Hello everyone! I am new to the forums but not C and B revolvers having just over 30 years experience. I am not a "once in a while" shooter, I am at the range every week and put 7 or 8 full cylinders through whichever pieces I bring with me.

Over the years I have owned and shot ASMs, Piettas and Ubertis. I have read many posts, here and elsewhere about ill fitting caps falling in the works of Colt designs and have had this same issue myself. I have two 1860 Armies, a Walker and an 1849 Pocket as well as a pair of non-Colt 1858 Remmies.

While the Colts are by far more prone to a cap falling into the works, or parts of one, I have had it happen with my Remingtons as well... only rarely but it has happened. Everyone seems to believe that this is an inevitable consequence of the "inferior" Colt design (don't get riled up yet, it is a factor but keep reading). Some advocate pinching the caps prior to placement on the nipple. I do not do this as there is a reason the caps fit so poorly and fall into the works. Whether the manufacturer claims the piece has #10 or #11 nipples the supposedly correct size cap never seems to fit properly because the diameter, cone or length of the nipple, or sometimes all three, is wrong. I have read that this is due to European caps of the same size being slightly different sizes than our American counterparts. I have no direct knowledge regarding a size difference so don't hold me on this but it makes some sense.

These days I never have a cap or part of one fall into the works of my Remingtons and only very rarely in my Colts. I have put seven full cylinders through my Walker and Armies in a single session and not had a single failure from a wedged cap. Even my Pocket, the most notorious jammer I have ever had, is now almost flawless. The first thing I do after ordering a new revolver for my collection is to go to Track of the Wolf and buy a new set of nipples. As soon as my new revolver arrives I clean it and throw the factory nipples away and replace them with the "truly" #11 nipples I just bought from TofW (I never buy #10s, even if that is what the gun shipped with, why buy two sizes of cap?). These nipples are designed to be the perfect dimensions for #11 caps and the caps stays secure even after firing. As I said, there is still the occasional jam but this is the exception and not the rule. Being able to fire all 5 chambers in my Pocket without having to dig parts of a cap out from between the frame and hammer is shear bliss for a BP enthusiast!

[Bigsmoke]

You left out some details there which I am sure people would like to know.
1.  What brand did you replace the old ones with, MSM (stainless steel), Treso (brass, actually berellym, but it looks like brass), Uncle Mikes (stainless steel)(are they still even making nipples), some other brand?
2.  What brand caps are you using?
3.  Darn, I done forgot what the 3rd question was.  Go ahead and answer something, that will probably be it.

Thanks, good post

John

[mandack]

1. I buy Track of the Wolf's 416 Stainless. They do make them in tempered blue steal as well. I have them on my ASM, two Piettas and two Ubertis. About to order another set for my current order, a Pietta 1851 Navy (yandlig36). This piece was a bear to find!
2. Track's #11s are designed for CCI but Remington's fit but they are a touch larger. I try to stay with the CCI because everybody around me carries them and since they fit so well are less likely to fall off and cause a jam.

Let me know if you remember #3 John!

[Uncle Russ]

Interesting read, mandack
 

Uncle Russ...

[mandack]

Thanks Uncle Russ. I did the homework years ago with my original 1860 Colt Army, an ASM repro, and again later with a Pietta 1858 Remington. Fired four cylinders worth from each with the original then swapped nipples and was very pleased. The Colt had jammed several times with the original, not unrecoverable but I had to use a small screw driver to pry out the offending cap frags. Years later when I bought my new pieces I performed the same tests on my Uberti Walker and my Pietta Colt. Same results. Now I don't go through the effort anymore, I just replace them automatically.

[lefty41]

Thanks, you just saved me some experimenting time. Have my first C&B, an 1851 in 44cal. A call to TOW is forthcoming.

[Maven]

Late to this party, but I had a real problem with the factory nipples and their Uncle Mike's replacement on my ca. 1979 Ruger Old Army (stainless steel).  With either set [of nipples] installed, it usually took two hammer falls to ignite the cap and main charge regardless of whether I used #10 or #11 caps (CCI, Remington, Winchester; normal or magnum).  I was really stymied by this and considered selling the ROA, but then I read about Slix Shot replacement nipples and decided to order a set.  Installation was easy peasy, but the result was even better:  No more misfires period!  The gun is now as reliable (and accurate!) as my Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, and handles as nicely as they do.  The Slix Shots really made the difference between keeping or selling my ROA.  

Try 'em, you'll like 'em   Oh, I should add I have no affiliation whatsoever with Slix Shot nipples or the company which produces/markets them (Badman Products?).

[Bigsmoke]

Looked up those nipples.  Quite an interesting story about their development.  (Read history on the web site)
From looking at the nipples, they sure do look like Uncle Mike's vented nipples.  
They were also talking about developing a longer plunger for Ruger Old Army pistols.  Doesn't sound like all that much of a development, as I recollect buying that same thing from Log Cabin maybe 30 years ago.
I was thinking that $36.00 for a set of nipples sounded kinda proud, but after looking a bit, it is pretty much in line with other manufacturers.

John

[rdstrain49]

big smoke;  I agree, $36.00 sounds like a lot to spend on a brand new weapon, unless you truly depend on that weapon, whether on the range or in the field.  I have used Tresco/Ampco nipples on all my revolvers for years.  I also, like mandack, replace the factory nipples prior the the first time each new weapon is fired.  I still find it irritating that I must put new nipples on a brand new weapon.  I think the factories should do it right the first time, I don't for a minuet believe the the factories are not aware of this situation.

Without getting into a big discussion about whether it makes sense or not, by choice I carried 44 cal. cap and ball revolver/s for personal defense when we lived in the mountains (big cat medicine).  I most certainly would not have done this without the Tresco/Ampco nipples.

[Bigsmoke]

Good morning, rdstrain49,
I have always liked the Treso nipples.  As a matter of fact, I have always preferred all the Treso products.  I have sold them for over 40 years and to the best of my knowledge, I have never had to refund for a product malfunction.  That's not a bad record, I would think.
The one thing that has bothered me a bit about the Treso nipples, however, is that I feel the orifice in the nipple is a bit small.  Easily cured by just drilling it out to the next size up in a numerical drill bit set.
FWIW, do you know how Don Minor came up with the name Treso?  When she was a little girl, his daughter, Theresa could not pronounce her name correctly.  The best she could do was Treso.  And so, that is what those products were called.
As far as replacing nipples on the pistols when new, I do that also, kinda.  With the Italian blued steel nipples, always.  With the Ruger OA with its stainless nipples, never.
John

[Fletcher]

Thanks for the post.  I have a bunch of rifles, and pretty much have gone to
the Tresco nipples on all of them.  They just seem to last longer without deforming
and the caps fit better.  I just recently acquired several BP revolvers and I am having
similar problems as above.  When I get home I will surely look into the Tresco nipples
for them as well (I assume they are of common thread - all are made in Europe so expect
6 x 1 mm)  Is that true?

 

[Bigsmoke]

Fletcher, Here is Treso's nipple thread chart.  Might help?

Rifle-¼x28 (T/C Nipple) ................................. 11-50-01............ 12-50-01
Lyman Rifle M6-.75 (old style)*.................... 11-50-03............ 12-50-03
Lyman Rifle M6-.75 (new style)**................ 11-50-66............ 12-50-66
Rifle M6-1 (CVA Nipple) ................................11-50-05............ 12-50-05
Rifle-¼x32 (Numrich Nipple) ......................... 11-50-04............ 12-50-04
Rifle/Pistol-¼x28 (shorter length) ..................11-50-11............ 12-50-11
Shotgun-9/32x26 (India Shotgun) ...................11-50-06............ 12-50-06
Pistol/Revolver-M6-.75 (old Italian Rev.)....... 11-50-10............ 12-50-10
Pistol/Revolver-M6-.75 (6-pack)..................... 11-50-106
Pistol/Revolver-M5.5x.9 (new Italian Rev.).... 11-50-16............ 12-50-16
Pistol/Revolver-M5.5x.9 (6-pack)................... 11-50-166
Pistol/Rifle (T/C Pat/Sen/Cher) 12-28 ............ 11-50-15........... 12-50-15
Ruger Revolver 12-28 (no “hex” shoulder)..... 11-50-12........... 12-50-12
Ruger Revolver 12-28 (6-pack)....................... 11-50-126
Itilian Colt Walker (1/4-28) .............................11-50-13............ 12-50-13
Original Colt Revolver (.225-32) ....................11-50-17............ 12-50-17
.31 cal. Italian Revolver M5.5x.9 .................... 11-50-30............ 12-50-30
.31 cal. Italian Revolver M5.5x.9 (5-pack)...... 11-50-305
.31 cal. Italian Revolver M5.5x.9 (6-pack)...... 11-50-306
British Enfield Musket (5/16-18)..................... 11-50-58............ 12-50-58
Musket-5/16x24 (U.S.Musket-#11 cap) ..........11-50-51............ 12-50-51
Italian Muskets (M8x1) ...................................11-50-59............ 12-50-59

By the way, I flinched a little bit when I saw that the Siix-Shot nipples were $36.00 for a set.  Then I happened to look up the Canadian distributor of them and he wants $79.00 Canadian for the same thing.  Wow !!  That seems a bunch.

[rdstrain49]

Fletch, like Big Smoke says albeit in many more words, no.

Big Smoke, I must respectfully disagree with the practice of enlarging the flash hole.  I do not and have no ignition issues what so ever in rifle or revolver.  The smaller hole results is good ignition and less blow back resulting in no dislodged caps.  That being said, what ever works for the individual is the proper set up.

[Fletcher]

Thanks for the info guys. I have not had a problem with ignition (flash hole size) just nipples
wearing out mostly by hammer drop.  My CVA and Traditions especially do not have a
perfect drop angle so they hit the nipple a wee bit off.  I do not have the heat tools or
skills to tweak the hammers to straighten that out - hence nipples don't last.  The Treso
last much longer than others.  My T/C (s) and one custom rifle are perfect so nipples last a
lot longer.  Plus most of those other guns were shot a LOT when used for Boy Scout and youth
program ML shooting.  Some of those guns were fired more in one summer than a lot of folk's
guns in a lifetime