Further testing of Flintlocks

[Hawken]

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-5-timing-powder-locations-in-pan/

[Ohio Joe]

Larry has done some excellent work over the years with ignition time, no doubt about that. 

[Winter Hawk]

I stand in awe at the work Larry has done over the years.  I guess he has pretty well debunked the idea that the prime needs to be to the outside of the pan. 

However, in the real world, how much difference does it make?  If I am stomping around in the woods and see my quarry, I doubt if I am going to worry about where my priming charge is: I'm going to shoulder the piece, aim and fire.  Even at the range I do this.  I don't tilt the gun one way or the other to place the prime where it is "optimum".  I doubt if the deer or squirrel are going to notice if the bullet hits them a couple of thousands of a second early or late and I surely don't notice it at the range, either!

~Kees~

[Ohio Joe]

I hear exactly what you're a saying, Kees.

I recall over on ALR Larry would time not only flintlock ignition - but caplock as well....  If I recall his findings correctly,,, they both were fast and there was not enough difference between the two to really even make a difference... However, many a mind set is still that there is a difference they can personally register.

I feel this "thought" process of difference is only in the flint hitting the frizzen, and nothing more. Mentally for many - they just can't shift their focus away from wanting to watch and see if the pan powder ignites when they pull the trigger on their flintlock. No doubt I was the same way 40+ years ago.

I've shot both cap and flint long enough now that it doesn't matter to me which one I'm shooting - but I'll admit that I get better scores from my caplock rifles, even though I don't believe I flinch with the flintlock.

Speaking of flintlock rifles; I took my new build out to the Range this morning (wanted to get use to the feel of it without wind) so I set a 10 inch gong up at 50 yards - then walked out to it and from 25 yards I took 2 shots (hit it both times) and moved back to 30 yards and hit both shots from there - moved back to 35, 40, 45, and 50 and took two shots each time from each distance and the only shot I missed was my first shot from 50 yards. All shooting was offhand. No wind sure makes a difference. Thing is, I knew I missed that shot from 50 yards as soon as I pulled the trigger. But,,, the rifle's getting broke in to where I know it and feel comfortable with it. It was a fun morning. 

[Uncle Russ]

Joe, IMHO, calling the shot the instant the trigger breaks is what it's all about.
Trusting your "wobbles" with your sight-picture only comes with time, and knowing where your ball will hit, at the instant the shot breaks, is the mark of a true marksman.
Good show my friend!

[Ohio Joe]

Russ, a long time ago I crossed paths with Webb Terry (muzzleloading slug-gun barrel maker & shooter) in a place where I use to buy my black powder back in Ohio (EJ Griffiths & Sons)... In fact EJ was the one who introduced him to me as I had previously bought a CVA Mnt Rifle Kit from him and I was ready for a Range trip.

Anyway, Webb told me about the club "Shawnee Longrifles" which I became a member of eventually, and shot with a lot of fellers who where NMLRA members and National competitors every Spring & Fall. This was obviously before the zip-gun era.

We talked a bit (can't remember what all about) but when we got to sighting in, (which I do recall) he suggested to me that the best way for an offhand shooter to zero their rifle is from an offhand position as you will never hold the same off of a bench zeroing a rifle in. Plus, you get the feel of the rifle and develop your hold at the same time. As well as shootin' in your barrel... (That's how long ago this conversation took place - now we just polish the bore with #4 steel wool.)

This advise I have always followed and always will...

I expect in this day and age the thinking has changed, and even I have been known to hit the bench if I don't get a good read where I'm hitting with the first five shots of a new build, and I've also seen the other side of the coin where someone swears by the bench sight-in and then they can't figure out why in the world they can't hit their target offhand as they wobble all over the place with their muzzle pointed down range trying to get a hold on their target. They haven't developed muscle memory at this point with their new rifle.

Now this is what works for me so I will always stick with it. On my morning trip to the Range today I splatter the 8 inch gong with 20 shots offhand this morning from 40 yards. I now feel comfortable with the hold and sight picture, as well as making any allowance for wind. It's a shooter. It's a flintlock - and my mind doesn't register that when I pull the trigger and follow through with the hold.