Chain-fire in CB revolver?

[fistmil]

Anyone ever experience one? For the first few years of CB revolver shooting I used to put Grease (Tompsom Center) over the ball in the cylinder.  I never had a chain-fire . What I did have , especially on a hot summer day, was a greasy mess.

I have a London model 1851 Uberti. The original paper work that came with the revolver said to use a .380 ball. For the past 28 years or so I have loaded with a wonder wad and the tight fitting .380 ball, no grease, and have never had a problem. Is the grease really necessary.  I don't  recall any mention of this practice (grease over the ball) historically

[R.M.]

If you use a lubed wad, I don't believe that grease is needed.

[FG1]

I think you are more apt to get a chain fire from loose fitting caps on nipples.

[Uncle Russ]

I think you are more apt to get a chain fire from loose fitting caps on nipples.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

This grease, or "bore butter", or whatever, over the ball is a somewhat modern invention, with this need most likely being brought about by the many cylinder size variances now found among manufacturers......

The original C&B pistols didn't use anything like that, and the original written instructions for loading the originals never mentioned anything about OP wads, or grease over the ball.

A simple .002" / .003" oversize ball that is form fitted by shaving lead from the ball while being seated over the powder, along with a "correct" size nipple and cap being used, provides all the "seal" and protection from chain-fires needed for these guns.

I remember reading years ago about tests being conducted by the NMLRA to intentionally create chain-fire conditions, and if I remember correctly, the wrong size cap was most likely the cause of such chain-fires 99.9% of the time.

FWIW; There is a difference in size between #10 and #11 caps, with the #10 being smaller inside by about .000215 while having a greater inside angle, and they're designed specifically to be used on C&B revolvers.

Most folks use #11 because their rifles use #11's and that's what they have on hand, or they think, or feel the #11 is somehow hotter.
It is not "hotter" in any way, so don't do that....You're inviting nothing but problems by having a larger or loose fitting cap.

Uncle Russ...

[Sir William]

I've had one some years ago.  Its my first and only in some 30 years of shooting cap and ball revolvers.  I had a the neighboring chamber go off.

My one experience seems to confirm the previous comments.  After it occured I noticed that several caps had fallen off.   Some of the nipples were of different diameters - so that the caps either fit snug or loose.  After my chain-fire I replaced all the nipples with higher quality ones.

The grease isn't to prevent a chain-fire but to provide some lube and prevent fouling.  I found it major mess, especially on warm days and don't use it in the cylinders anymore, though I still lube the cylinder pin.

[Fletcher]

I just finished my NRA ML pistol course and did some extras reading on the revolver parts of the course.  Having never shot one I wanted to learn more.

NRA and every source I read stated the importance of a tight fitting ball and greased cylinder to avoid jarring the balls loose or getting a chian fire.  They did state that the grease should be of viscosity to account for temperature and weather.  They reccommend a ball that is slightly larger than the cylindar so it will 'shave' slightly to fit tightly and a grease that is thick enough to seal but not too stiff if cold or too thin if hot.  I guess that would mean you would need to keep several lube sources for your weather conditions.

Any revolver experts add to this?

Since most events I go to don't allow them (only single barrel) I have not paid much attention.  Now that I have to teach it I need to be more educated.

[R.M.]

If you put a lubed wad between the powder charge and ball, you don't need the grease over the ball. The wad protects you from the possibility of chain-fires started from the front, which is what the grease does.

[James Kelly]

Chain fires can be fun.
I shot an original pepperbox some years ago with just wadding, to deal with a yellowjacket nest.
Neat thing it was not at all necessary to pull the trigger more than twice to get all 6 barrels off.
Don't believe it was fire around the muzzle that did it.

[russ t frizzen]

Anyone ever experience one? For the first few years of CB revolver shooting I used to put Grease (Tompsom Center) over the ball in the cylinder.  I never had a chain-fire . What I did have , especially on a hot summer day, was a greasy mess.

I have a London model 1851 Uberti. The original paper work that came with the revolver said to use a .380 ball. For the past 28 years or so I have loaded with a wonder wad and the tight fitting .380 ball, no grease, and have never had a problem. Is the grease really necessary.  I don't  recall any mention of this practice (grease over the ball) historically

When I started shooting C&B revolvers, we used real ones as there weren't any repos around. The important thing then and now is to have a tight fitting ball that shaves a ring of lead evenly all around the ball as it is seated. The lube is there only to soften fouling and keep the action turning freely. It is important to get as much lube as possible on the arbor. The lube does nothing to prevent chain-fires and the whole wad under the ball seems to be a modern thing. Colt never mentioned wads in the factory loading instructions and I've never seen any period writings that mention wads.

The real culprit when it comes to chain-fires is loose caps/ incorrect nipple sizes. The caps must fit correctly so that they stay in place under recoil and fit well so that the heat from an adjoining cap can't get under it and light off the chamber prematurely.  Sam Colt himself said that a properly loaded C&B revolver will not chain-fire and that has been my experience too.

[madcaster]

I would rather take the precautions and avoid the chainfire thingy,as I am sure all of you would.
 One thing I do is to use .380 balls,and a wad,and snug caps on the nipples.
 Jeff

[James Kelly]

So . . . would any of you gentlemen happen to know the relative sizes of various brands No. 10 caps?

Need to shoot a cap revolver as part of my RO training. Got out my 2nd generation squareback Navy, S/N something under 9000, put some #10 Remingtons on it (given me by a friend) & popped them. Seemed a little loose to me, so tried some #10 CCI which I just bought.
Twice a CCI cap fell off when the gun was cocked.
Hmmm. Sounds like ChainFireCity to me.

Dug out a Navy Arms brass framed revolver, #10 CCI seemed to fit OK, though none too tight. Guess I'll shoot the Reb tomorrow night.
Maybe with Remington caps.

I gotta drive an hour + to Kenockee Trading Post to buy caps or I would just get a tin of each brand I could find.

So, in #10 caps, how do you fellas rate the tightness of fit by brand?

[R.M.]

10's are the small ones. You can pinch them a bit to make them oval, and they'll stay better. Also, as you shoot, the nipples will crud up, which will hold them better too.
I've found that CCI's are smaller, or harder, so the pleats don't expand as easily.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

I've fired several hundred rounds from the Ruger old army and several  colt open frame  repros. I would have to agree that most chain fires are caused at the rear of the cylinders. Worn nipples loose fitting caps and even accumalated unburnt powder bridgeing from one nipple to another. I always brush the loose powder from the rear of the cylinder each time I load. If the ball is of propper size it should shave a fine ring of lead off the ball. Some competivive shooterd chamfer the mouth of the chambers so there is no ring.

[Three Hawks]

My bro in law has an original Rem. New Model Navy (.36) caliber revolver.  He and I shoot it several times a year with .380 RB's.  They shave a tidy little ring as they're rammed in and we've never experienced anything but amazement at the accuracy of the old girl.  We use Remington caps as that's what I have. They go on snug and stay there.  

From watching what the ball does when it arrives at various targets, I it seems about as powerful as .38 Special +P's.  That is to say, no slouch.

We've been greasing the cylinder pin with moly anti-seize.  The only thing about that is it's kind of difficult to clean off.  Other'n that it's about perfect as bp revolver lube.

Three Hawks

[macNnc]

only had it happen once to me...but that was plenty, i can tell you!