New Colt 1860; need help! :-)

[mark davidson]

OK, I am kinda new.  This weekend I got a brand new in the box 2nd generation Colt 1860 Army c@b revolver.  I have questions! First, it was made in 1978 and is new unfired in the box with all paperwork: what is it worth??? Before I shoot it I want to know what I really have and what it is really worth.  Next, what kind of balls and wads do I need to fire this baby up?  I think I only have 2F goex bp; will that work? Caps, I have only #11 caps; will they work?  If not where can I get the #10s?  Assuming I find that it is legal, I intend to use it for backup on deer or maybe a primary shot on deer if one is close and conditions are ideal. Any information you can give me will be appreciated. I am very experienced with handguns but very inexperienced with black powder handguns and have never owned a c@b revolver. Please assist in my education. Thanks in advance! :-)

[R.M.]

I'd think long and hard about shooting it.
Just my thoughts.

[Bigsmoke]

Ditto to what RM said.  They are considered somewhat of a collectible.
Anyway, according to my 4th edition of the blue book of Modern Black Powder Arms (which is a few years old and has suffered irrepairable damage by my sister-in-law's flea infested mongrel cur chewing on it) the standard issue 1860 NIB is worth $600.  The last MSR was $431.
They were made between 1978 and 1982 and 6,300 were produced.
I think they like .454 round ball and the Ox Yoke #4400 wads.  Fffg no doubt works best, but Ffg also could be used, although it is a bit coarse for the purpose.  You will probably find your most accurate charge to be in the neighborhood of 25 grains.
The 1860, 1861 and 1862 models Colt are no doubt my most favorite pistol designs.  I really like the sleekness of them and the 1860 sure feels good in my hands.  And who can ever say enough about Mr. Colt's famous, pattented disappearing rear sight.

[mark davidson]

Thanks for the info. I am indeed giving pause to shooting it, but if I keep it I will shoot it as I really don't collect;  I like to shoot um too much. :-)  As for value, the "book" value seems to be way under what they are actually bringing on Gunsamerica and other  specialty forum gun lists.  Used ones are being bid on in the $700 plus range and NIB ones are bid on upwards of $800.  Bigsmoke, I especially appreciate the load data and info. about what ball to get and wad.  I have seen loads of up to 40 grains of 3F or pyrodex and have read lots about folks dropping one pyro pellet or tripple 7 pellet in the chambers.  I want to generate all the horsepower I can muster out of it safely as there is a good chance that I will shoot a deer critter with it sooner or later, hopefully sooner!  As for the rear sight, well that is a whole nuther story! :-)

[jbullard1]

Mark
Forget about finding #10 caps in north Mississippi
I get several tins when I go to Bass Pro in Memphis
I shoot 454 balls and a Cabelas felt wad

[Bigsmoke]

Mark,
Notice that I said "accurate" charge would be in the neighborhood of 25 grains.  No doubt you can load nearly 40 - 45 grains, but...

As I mentioned, the Blue Book I have is a bit dated and the prices that things bring on an auction site are usually sqewed - the auction excitement getting involved and all.

Frankly, if I were going to use a BP revolver for hunting purposes, I would use a Ruger.

[mark davidson]

John,
   How bad does accuracy go downhill at around 30 grains of powder?  Is the 23 grain load potent enough to punch a hole in a deer and git-r-done?  Tell me why you lean toward the Ruger. I could get two Rugers for the cost of the Colt. I am a pretty big COLT fan actually in many things so I was drawn like a magnet to the Colt 1860. I love Ruger handguns too and have several but the c&b Ruger does not speak to me like the Colt even though I know the sights are better.
    Jerry, You got a cap and ball gun too?  What kind?  Ever hunt  with it?

By the way, Do I absolutely have to use the #10 caps or will the #11s work just fine??

[R.M.]

I certainly wouldn't be trying to put 40gr in a Colt, if it does fit, which I doubt. A Ruger can handle 40gr.
If it's horsepower you want, there are several better guns that can produce it. If you must have a revolver, go to a Walker, but I would suggest a single-shot like the Patriot or Trapper.

[Bigsmoke]

Why would I go with a Ruger?  Well, let's see.  The action is a lot more rugged.  The sights are a lot better.  The powder capacity is more.  Inherintly it is a more accurate pistol.
For the Colt, it is a more aesthetically pleasing piece of machinery.
If I was going strictly for hunting and PC didn't matter, I would use a Kahnke pistol.  Single shot, up to .54 caliber, rugged action, will handle some serious powder charges, excellent sights, etc.

[Voyageur]

 "Doc"

[jbullard1]

John,
...............................
    Jerry, You got a cap and ball gun too?  What kind?  Ever hunt  with it?
.............................

The only one I have is a Pietta 1851 brass frame that I can drive tacks with @ 25 yards  :lol  

[Pitchy]

Also make sure it`s legal to shoot deer with a BP revolver in your state, it isn`t in my state front loaders only. If it is legal and ya want power buy a Walker replica that has some appreciative power.

[jbullard1]

Also make sure it`s legal to shoot deer with a BP revolver in your state, it isn`t in my state front loaders only. If it is legal and ya want power buy a Walker replica that has some appreciative power.

Thanks Pitchy for the heads up  

[Uncle Russ]

I don't want to take away from this thread, but you guys talking about that big ol' Walker sure gives me that certain "itch", if ya know what I mean?

Like others here have said, it's darn hard not to like the feel, handiness, and balance, of the 1860 Colt.
But, when it comes to out & out killin, that big, ugly, heavy, Walker just can't be overlooked.....Ya gotta love 'em!

BTW, Mark....Our own Hawkeye, here on the forum, now owns a 1861 Colt .54cal "Special Musket", 3 Band Rifle, in the Signature series, and let me tell you, it is one really nice rifle.

Uncle Russ...

[mark davidson]

Men, Thanks for  the info. overnight.  I read all the booklets that came with the 1860 last night twice! Questions: Voyager, For some reason I thought the lubed felt wad went over the powder between the powder and the ball. you mentioned putting a greased wad over the ball. Which is correct loading? I did not mention cylinder removal cause I have not removed it yet. I just got the gun this past weekend and have not fired it or loaded it yet as I have to aquire the components. I did read to get the barrel off I am supposed to use a piece of wood and a soft hammer and drift the wedge from right to left. Do I have to loosen a screw on the left side before drifting or do I just put the wood on the wedge and smack it a bit?? I think I understand that that screw above the wedge on the left simply holds a spring that keeps the wedge from falling out but I have never broken down one of these so I am asking. :-)  Also, Voyager, thanks so much for the safety tips and genuine concern for helping a newbie. As for caps, the only ones I have on hand are #11s like I use on my TC Hawken. You seem to think they might work or that the #10s might work better or maybe even worse. I think the manual suggests #10s. Is it likely that the #11s will work fine?
    Horsepower:  I am sure I will be content with 25 to 30 grain charges for my intended purposes.

   Jerry, I actually talked to the state game and fish department in Jackson, MS yesterday about legality of hunting with the c&b gun. Here is the skinny:  It is "technically" NOT legal to deer hunt during primitive weapon season with a pistol of any kind.  The description of legal weapons  does not mention pistol and the interpretation is that a legal primitive weapon must be fired from the shoulder. The fellow I talked to told me that he would certainly not cite or ticket someone for having a c&b revolver along with his long gun and he added that he could not imagine any officer writing a ticket for it. He also added that he would bring the issue up and perhaps get the law changed or written to include black powder sidearms. It would of course be legal to carry the c&b sidearm during regular rifle season, just not technically legal in primitive weapon season.

Russ, I think I am going to keep the Colt just cause it speaks to me. I may pick up a Ruger down the road if I take a notion to use a bp pistol for a primary tool in handgun hunting. However, with a little patience and strategy I believe I can smack a deer sooner or later with the Colt. Likely it will just be used for backup and finishing off if need be anyway.

I am a little worried about the sights (or lack thereof) on the Colt. I am still pretty performance oriented and I suspect that hitting really well with that notched hammer for a rear sight is going to be a challenge. Any thoughts???