Flintlock fustrations, To many flashes in the pan, Questions

[Lastmohecken]

Well,  this could be a long story, but I will try to keep it short, and get to the point, regarding this post. I am trying to learn the Flintlock, and I am presently shooting a Loaner .62 Fowler, the one that is supposed to be mine is not done yet, So Jackie Brown sent me a loaner, until I get mine. The gun I have right now is a little rough, but it was unfired when I received it.

Well, I finally got it sparking pretty good, I recond, and I am on my second flint now. Today, I took it squirrel hunting, using 80grs of FF, a hard card and 1/2" lubed wad over powder, with same volume of #6's and over shot hard card. I killed my first Flintlock Squirrel on the first pull of the trigger, with a clean gun. Second chance at a squirrel, was a flash in the pan, I was also having missfires of both kinds on my first shooting session.

I had had problems with this before. And I had been pricking the flash hole with a pick. I had determined at a previous shooting session that it seemed a full pan was working better, but that was before when part of my problem was sparking. I had also tried banking the powder, with not a lot of sucess. On the first session, it seemed like I was getting the most consistant bangs, by just loading the gun, not picking, and using a full pan of powder.

Anyway, I went home with the one squirrel, cleaned it, ate lunch, and went hunting late afternoon again. I had left the gun loaded, but emptied the pan, before going in the house. I carefully reprimed, picked the flash hole and went hunting. Had a squirrel growl at me on a limb, and allow me to aim fire, got another flash in the pan, but the spuirrel just sat there, I reprimed, and pulled the trigger again, another flash in the pan. The Squirrel had seen enough by now, I carefully reprimed and started to relive my loading of that round, and was starting to doubt if I had put any powder in the gun before adding shot. But in my mind I was just sure I had powder in it. I decide to try shooting it again. This time it fired.

Relieved, I carefully loaded again, banking the powder, and picking the flash hole, and walked on down where I had seem some squirrels, before. Finally got a chance at a big fox squirrel, while I was on the move. It was a fast shot, and I wondered if I had missed, but it went bang, without any hessitation, and I found the squirrel laying dead, when I walked up the the tree.

I loaded again, hunted my way home, and went to fire it, before going into the house, another flash in the pan. I  had banked the powder and pricked the flashhole, I primed again and the gun went bang.

[Lastmohecken]

This gun kills really good, when I can get it to go bang. But I am having 50% flashes in the pan. I am starting to think that maybe the flashhole is too small. By the way, I am also primming with FF.

The flash hole seems to be in the right spot, with the bottom of the hole, about an 1/8 inch off of the bottom of the pan on the large Siler Lock.

I have been trying to bank the load, but I have noticed that it's about impossible to keep the powder banked, unless you are very careful on how you carry the rifle, etc. This is too finikey for my taste.

Does this gun need the flash hold drilled out. It might be a 1/16 in dia, but maybe not. I havn't actually checked it.

[ridjrunr]

I believe that the best priming powder is 4f and 3f at a min. if you dont have 4f.That could very well be a big part of yer frustration. Also try to keep the priming in the  outside part of the pan.I too am new to flinters,but they shure are fun.

[Kermit]

When you say you are "banking" the powder, I assume you mean the priming charge, but I'm not sure I know what you are meaning. Can you define "banking" for us?

[WhiteBlanket]

I notice that my guns fire best with a very small priming charge.

I only fill the pan 1/3 full; in I never "bank" it against the touchole.  If I tip the powder in any direction It is to the far end of the pan from the touchhole, so tha it is not obscured.  And I 'v elearned to prick the vent each and every time I set up a load.

Btw, I prime with FFg; others swear by FFFFg;  I do what I d becauseas far as I can tell, the 18th c. French habitant primed with the same grade powder they shot. Your milage may vary.

[biliff]

Touch hole should be no smaller than 1/16". Some like them at 5/64".  Since its a loaner gun, I wouldn't do any drilling without permission from the owner, but you can check the diameter and see what you've got.

      Don't bother with banking the powder, just fill the pan up to the bottom of the vent hole.

       I've found that inserting my vent pick (a copper wire) into the vent, loading the piece and then withdrawing the pick seems to work for me.

       Only other thing I can think of is how much pressure your using to seat the wad. You want it seated but you don't want to compact the powder by pounding on it repeatedly with the ramrod.

[Bigsmoke]

Now you are starting to get the idea why a lot of folks prefer percussion.
The idea of picking the touch hole is not just to clear the hole, but also to open up a conical cavity in the powder charge so that there is more surface area for the priming charge to contact.  Therefore, you need a wire, not something to just piddle around with the face of the vent.
I definitely agree that you need a nice size opening for the flash to go through.  Most touch hole liners have way too small a hole in them as they come from the factory.  Of course, it is easier to open one up, than to make it smaller.
I'd say not to worry about it too much until you get your own gun.  Then you can start working with it and tune it the way it needs.
As far as the priming charge goes, just experiment with it until you find something that works.  Agree that you want to keep it below the level of the vent hole.  If you do bank it, it should be banked against the far side of the pan, away from the barrel.

[Lastmohecken]

No, I am not going to drill a larger hole in a loaner gun. I am just trying to sort out my problems. By banking, I am talking about trying to bank the powder in the pan, opposite of the flashhole.

I do have a wire, and I did read about making a channel in the main charge, and I have tried that, but it doesn't seem to work very good for me at all.

The old timers must have had a bigger flash hole.

No, I am not really ramming the powder or shot, when I load, i am just pouring the powder in and pushing a card down on the powder, until I am sure it's seated on the powder, then pushing a 1/2" lubed wad down on the card, pouring in the shot, and then I usually cut a very small V in the over shot card to let air out and push it down onto the shot charge. I just firmly seat it, but i don't pound it.

Maybe I will try to slip in the wire vent pick into the vent hole, then pour in the main charge, and see if that helps.

[Lastmohecken]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the idea is to have a channel going all the way accross the main charge, and that is why one used the vent pick?

[Captchee]

First and im assuming you are , but it doesn’t hurt to ask . You are using BP not a synthetic  correct ?

A vent pick  is used to clear cinders from the touch hole .
 There is no need for the  pick to go all the way through the main charge . Just into it alittle bit .
 Your powder should never  cover the flash hole .  If it does you will get a slow or delayed ignition
 
 Sounds to me “ and im guessing here “ but it sounds to me that if the flash hole is clear , your main charge  is not settling . Hard to say why this happens or why it is happening with your rifle  without knowing how the breech and  flash hole align .
 Through the years I have come  to  be a big believer in settling a charge . Basicly after I load  the powder , I lightly thump the butt on the ground a couple times , before I load my patch and ball . I then
pick  the flash hole .  If I do not  feel powder when I do that , I  prime the pan   and then tap the powder over  to the flash hole. With the rifle leaned so as the powder is against the flash hole , I  give the rifle a couple good taps  so some of the 4 F  flows into the flash  hole . I then take my vent pick and push alittle into and through the flash hole .
 I then close the frizzen and  roll the rifle so as the rest of the   pan powder is away from the flash hole .
 I then open the frizzen and check to make sure  the powder has moved away and that the flash hole still is open .
 My rifle is so consistent that  it’s a real surprise when  I get a  flash in the pan . Any Clatch is do to me   getting lazy .
 Infact I have won more then a couple  consistency contests against  cap locks.
 I will stretch that and say that IMO a  proper flintlock  is far more consistent in the hands of an experienced shooter   then a cap lock can ever be .
 that’s  my opinion after   near 3 decades of  shooting  for the most part  flintlocks only ..
 When on the range or at a voooo, I would have to say I spend more time clearing caplock that wont fire then I do fiddling with a finicky  flintlock..
 I will say also ,that learning the flintlock can be a daunting task  by yourself  when you don’t have  an experienced shooter who can look  and tell you specifically , on the spot  what is wrong .
  Without that, all one can do is give advice  and try to re-enforce the fact that  once you get it all down , maintaining the flintlock so as to keep 99.99 % consistence  will become second nature . It will load just as fast as any cap lock  and will be  more consistent in all weather situations . Its just a mater of learning the ins and outs
 

As to  old priming practices .
 I support the suggested idea that  priming was done from the main  horn ,even though I prefer  to prime with 4F from a horn charger  . In fact if one  understands the British loading  drill  for the Bess ,  we find that the pan is primed with the very same powder that ends up going down the barrel .
 That being said , I think there is a reason why this worked well
 See back then powder was very inconstant  in size . So while you had large grains , you also had small grains mixed  in .  everything  from very fine  grains , smaller the 4F to  grains larger then 2 F .

 Also the drilled touchholes  were not simply a hole .   Like most people think ..
 The hole is often rather large . Large enough to  many time self prime the pan . IE  when the main charge is loaded  some of that powder falls through to the pan .
 In fact both Manton and Nock  made self priming locks specifically for this purpose

 The flash hole is also counter bored . In other words before the breech plug is installed , a cherry is used to  drill a cup into the barrel wall  around the flash hole . Thus moving the main charge closer to the  pan , in that area . Thus   not only improving ignition but also  ignition speed

[pathfinder]

If you can't see the powder thru the touch hole,it's to small :rotf ,Of course,your milage WILL vary!

[Biz]

Take a look at this site. It should help.

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured- ... iments.php

Bill

[Lastmohecken]

Well, according to that site, banking the powder in the pan away from the flash hole is more or less an old wives tale, as the fastest times were with the powder next to the flash hole.

I think I am going to try some FFF and see how that works, in both the main charge and the pan.

[Sir Michael]

I'll toss my 2p in here at this point.  ridjrunr makes a good point.  Priming with FFFg or FFg can be iffy at best.  I've always had very good results with FFFFg in the pan.  Regardless of what shoot for a main charge.  You can get away with FFFg or FFg in the pan if you open up the touch hole but, since this is a loaner I'd strongly recommend you get FFFFg for priming it should go a long way toward solving you problem.  The gains of FFFg and especially FFg are so large that the flash they throw are probably having a hard time getting in to the main charge and the large grain of the main charge are not flowing into the channel of the touch hole so it is hard for them to meet up.

[Lastmohecken]

Sir Michael, I think you have some really good points.

I just got through shooting it a few more times.
On this occasion I decided to keep using 2F for the main charge, but primed with 3F and each time, I pricked the touch hole, and even tried to shove a few graniuals of 3F prime into the flash hole. I didn't have any flashes in the pan. I did have one failure to fire, when the priming powder didnot fire. The flint I have in there right now, is holding up good, and seems sharp. But maybe the flint had gotten dirty, with soote, so I wiped the flint with my thumb, and even though the frizzen looked clean I wiped it too.

Then I fired 3 more shots without any problems. Maybe, I am learning.

I hope to go squirrel hunting again this afternoon, late. I hope I get a couple of chances to bag another squirrel or two.