The shootability of a smoothbore?

[IronDawg]

I really REALLY like the looks of some of these old trade rifles. And the kits aren't too badly priced.

Bit in all honesty I'm not really intrested in shooting shot at all. I'm pretty much  hooked on round balls.

So my question is concerning the accuracy of the smooth bores. Is it normally suprising how accurate they will shoot a round ball?? Or is it just "acceptable or mediocre??

I'm betting the answers are more varying than anything. But I would hate to not hit a deer where I wanna hit it at 50yds when if I woulda been shooting a 1-66 it would have been on target.

Is there a normal distance where accruacy starts failing with them?

And are they easier to clean?? Not that thats of importance. Just seems without the riflings getting the bore to shine would be alot easier.

[bluelake]

My experience this past summer is not the end-all answer, but it was significant to me.  I was shooting my new 45 cal. smoothbore matchlock at 50 yds. and was able to plug a 4" leather circle solidly on the first try and most of my shots after that followed.  I had a few ignition problems (which were mostly of my doing and not the matchlock's), but everything else went well.

[hawkeye]

Smoothbores can be quite accurate but they are not rifles. A good rule of thumb is 50 yds or less.  I know someone will post that there smoothbore is accurate to 100 yards but in general, keep it to 50 yds or less. Another thing to consider is most smoothbores don't have a rear sight.

If all you want to shoot is round ball and hunt with it, I'd stick to a rifle or a rifled barrel trade gun.  If you want the versatility to shoot round ball or shot, then a smoothbore can't be beat.

As for cleaning, I find my smoothies clean a lot faster than my rifles.

[mark davidson]

I too am interested in Irondawg's question. I got a 12 guage fowler that I would like to shoot a round ball with for the novelty of killing a deer with it. When I had it built last spring, I had a rear sight put on it cause I figured sometime I would want to shoot a round ball with it. Assuming I find the right patch thickness and powder combo that it will like, what can I expect off the bench at 50 yards......4 inch groups....pie plate groups....saucer groups.......broad side of the barn groups??? :-)

[hawkeye]

Assuming I find the right patch thickness and powder combo that it will like, what can I expect off the bench at 50 yards......4 inch groups....pie plate groups....saucer groups.......broad side of the barn groups??? :-)

Try it and find out. Everybody's gun is different. Lee makes a .690 round ball mould (proper sized ball for a 12 gauge). Try different patch/powder combinations and see what it's capable of doing. Nobody else is going to know how your gun shoots.

[pathfinder]

As I advise everyone when teaching hunting and shooting, use what you are comfortable and confident with. The suggestion of a rifled barrel in a trade gun stock,any style, is a good one. If you need a rear sight, so be it. It's all about putting the shot right where you need it to go. Not all people can shoot a smoothie well. Myself along with many many others can shoot 'em right along with rifles off hand and not embarrass ourselves too bad! It's all about confidence. Rear sights on Trade guns was not uncommon. NMLRA rules are used in 99% of all competitions though.

[hawkeye]

Rear sights on Trade guns was not uncommon. NMLRA rules are used in 99% of all competitions though.

The rule is no rear sights above plane of barrel in a smoothbore match.

[Kermit]

Consider a .62 cal round-bottom rifled barrel in a trade gun style. Sounds to me like you don't need a smoothie.

Omigod, did I just say that???

[Uncle Russ]

Consider a .62 cal round-bottom rifled barrel in a trade gun style. Sounds to me like you don't need a smoothie.

Omigod, did I just say that???

Did he just say that?  

I can't believe he said that! :lol:
 

Uncle Russ...

[mark davidson]

Hawkeye, Respectfully, I do not see why it is such conventional wisdom that our guns are SOOOO different that we cannot share recipes and expect similar results. I well know that every gun has a fine point preference in powder and patch and ball. Still, my gun with a particular brand barrel in X caliber cannot be that different than yours or anybody elses with the same brand barrel. This is not the mystical or difficult pursuit that some want it to be. My question was simple. I have a 12 guage fowler. I want to know what other people with similar guns are getting for groups with what they have found to work. If other folks with more "experience" are getting 4" groups at 50 yards then I know what my first goal shoud be and what I should be striving for. Just telling me to go shoot MY gun is not helping a new shooter much. Tell me what YOUR guns are doing and then I will know what to expect from MINE and maybe better. Most of OUR guns all have barrels made from the same three or four quality barrel makers. Quality control cannot be so horrible that all our guns are too different for us to share loads and results. HMM??? :-)

[Uncle Russ]

Mark, such statements as you just made certainly does show your inexperience.
However, that is understandable. I can't say I was a lot different when I first started. However, I was patient enough to watch, and listen, and learn.

Keep this in mind....no two barrels are exactly alike, and no two barrels shoot the same. What's good for the Goose is not always good for the Gander.

The only way you are going to know where your gun shoots is for you to shoot it, using your powder, your patch, your lube, your ball, and your loading technique....which will all be somewhat different from the person trying to give you advise.....

Even different lot numbers of the same powder is going to act differently. Temperature, humidity, both have an effect. Lube has an effect, and even how that lube was applied will affect the shot.
There is simply too many variables to even list to say for certain that one load is better than another in another persons gun.

I'm sorry, but that's life!

Russ...

[mark davidson]

Russ,  I admittedly am very inexperienced so i do not surprise myself when I stick my foot in my mouth. I know and accept that I and other newcomers must shoot our own guns for the truest test. Still there has to be norms and standards to start with. That is all I and many others (newbies) want....just a little boost to get us started and a little help with what to possibly expect or strive for. For example, if experienced shooters here say their smooth bore 12s will consistently shoot 6" groups then that tells me that mine should be capable of that too if I work diligently to find the powder, ball, patch, lube, etc...combo it likes. I got some starting loads on here for my .62s and some quality info. on what it should do adn then set about to make mine perform to that measure and they did! One cannot know when he has "arrived" without knowing what the goal is and where to at least start.  Between 80 and 110 grains of powder is kind of a standard load across the board for many folks. I learned here that 130 to 140 grains of 2F might work in my new .62s and guess what,....it did and worked great! That is the kind of help new folks need. It just gets frustrating to me to ask a simple question for some help and the knee jerk response be something like "Shut up and go shoot YOUR gun cause it is SOOO different from everybody elses that we cannot help YOU get started." Maybe I have just been lucky but getting my guns to really stroke after starting with some good advice from here just was not that big of a problem or that long and drawn out of a task. JMO/JME :-)

[Bigsmoke]

Two other things to consider.
One is the mechanical qualities of the barrel.  So, say that barrel manufacturer has a practice of sharpening their tooling on Saturday morning after it has been used all week.  I would submit that the last barrel rifled on Friday is going to be considerable different than the first one that was made on Monday morning.  Not a lot, but enough to effect the shooting properties of the barrels by a bit.
The second thing to consider is that each shooter applies a different amount of pressure on the PRB when they load.  The results of this are noticeable.  Even the amount of pressure a person applies using different ramrods can vary a bit.  I would suggest that a rifle loaded with a bench rod has a bit more pressure applied than that with an undergun rod.  I think somewhere I heard that the ideal amount of pressure used is something like 35 PSI.  How would you know for sure that you are applying 35 PSI pressure to your ramdod everytime you load, unless you have some sort of device mounted to your rod?

[BEAVERMAN]

ID, just to give you a clue, we have a couple guys out here in the PNW  maybe a dozen that shoot nothing but smoothies for all the events, including candle shoots and these guys win on a semi regular basis, one of them is TMA member Mike Jaynes, rarely seen on the forum, but I've seen him win many a candle shoot and other novelty shoots with his smoothie, once you get them dialed in, they can be shooters for sure!

[mark davidson]

Bigsmoke, Good points. Barrels and quality does vary from Friday barrels to Monday barrels but both I am sure both are within a very tight set of industry tolerances. I also agree about the ramrod pressure and several other things influencing the way a rifle shoots by a "bit." However, I doubt that a Friday tolerance barrel versus a Monday tolerance barrel will produce one gun that shoots 2"groups at 100 and another that shoots two foot groups. Same with ramrod pressure, I have no idea how much pressure I put in numbers but going from range rod to undergun rod and I have done that on the bench, does not make my guns go from stroking to crap or from crap to stroking. All I am saying is that the starting recipes that I got from some of you here were priceless and took very little tweaking to make my guns shoot like a dream. That has happened four times in a row for me and my shooting partner with two custom .54s and two custom .62's. Such experience leads me to think there must not be that much difference(rocket science) to making a gun stroke if a new feller has a decent piece of advice (data) to start with.  Maybe all ya'll's advice was not supposed to work but it did and I am pretty grateful!!!:-)