SWORDS in the FUR TRADE

[Puffer]

Those that re-enact Military the carrying of Swords is a "no brainer"
BUT what about carrying & using in the "Fur Trade"?? = YES  There are  to many well documented references to discount. ( Use references, post inventories, Trade lists  Bios,etc.) These cover not only the NWC/HBC ( a req. load out for clerks + ) but other ( Amer. French, native Amer. etc.)

So what did these men carry ?? As with Firearms the references far to often are not specific  ( generic terms - Sword .... ) But they fall into 2 Categories, & cover the full "gamut" of "period swords, IMO ( full size & "short swords")

Full size = sabers to Basket hilt Scots +++

Short Swords ( blades of about 25") --
This genre seems to be "perhaps" the most often carried, at least by the NWC/HBC.
This genre is referred to by many names- Hunter,Hanger,Cattoe, Spadroon, Cutlass etc
Although all the blades were short, the were both straight & curved.

Here is an idea of the "hilts" ( plainer styles) & seem to "cross over to other "styles"

Cutlass - Because this is one of the most common ( I have run into & & the inane attrib to solely navy & "pirates" ) The style varied greatly, these 2 a basic. ( think a a weapon & tool (machete)
[albumimg:2ukdukzf]5269[/albumimg:2ukdukzf]  [albumimg:2ukdukzf]5270[/albumimg:2ukdukzf]

The others ( some examples) -

[albumimg:2ukdukzf]5268[/albumimg:2ukdukzf]  [albumimg:2ukdukzf]5267[/albumimg:2ukdukzf]

I offer this "humbly"  & because IMO this is a subject to often over looked or ignored + I oft carry a Sword
 Puffer

[Trois Castors]

Do you know what sword(s) were on the tradelists?I have been wondering about this for a while now......a picture to go with the name or description would help to, if possible.

[Puffer]

Do you know what sword(s) were on the tradelists?I have been wondering about this for a while now......a picture to go with the name or description would help to, if possible.

 Trying to  track down The type of swords that were shipped for trade is very difficult. ( been try to figure it out for some time.)  
The reason being that the "co.s" are not descriptive. they simply, say x# cutlasses, hangers, swords,etc. Just as they often do for fire arms.( trade guns, fussils, rifles, pistols etc.) As an exaple, a manifest list exists ( 1835 for a shipment to the Amer. Fr Co. "Upper Missouri Outfit" )Simply Lists 20 brass mounted swords.
Add to this, the records of the NWC are VERY incomplete & the HBC are arduous to obtain.

Plus the few existing "native swords"as well as those that supposedly carried by "trappers ( other than NWC/HBC employees) are VARIED & often seem to have been "hilted from the "vast # of bulk blades shipped.
Here is where I am - ( taken from my research ( guesstimates )

Discounting Swords for employees, & native dignitaries, acquired the  plainest,, most readily avail. ( surplus mil., contract buys etc.)

1. the NWC - A mix of French, & others ( Brit, Euro etc) in all categories.
2. HBC - Brit mainly, but some seem to have been Euro contracted )
3. American - ?

So @ this time MHO = If you are a "native", a "trapper"( so called "free" or emigree etc ) then what ever you like as long as it fits the period. ( prior to the date you are portraying, with in 50 years or so)

If I were doing a display, or portraying the above in the 1800s t0 1830s, here are the hilts I would use.

Saber (light cav FRENCH) -  ( note blade could be straight ot curved )
French -
But plain steel or brass

( light cav. Brit)

Generic -

An antler handled " bulk blade"  

Short swords - same "Hilts" + simple generic "cutlass style"




OR this "Hanger/cottee  

Again, this is open to interp. ( a couple of years ago & 2xs since, quarried a site that IMO, have some of the best "experts" on Swords about "Fur trade swords" but, although some great input ( much of which I shared here) they could not give "difinative" answers. So  ....

Puffer

[Trois Castors]

Thanks Jack,your answer and pictures are much appreciated

[Uncle Russ]

Good post, Jack

Soooo much to learn, soooo little time!
Still yet, I find many of your posts informative, and well written.

You're never one to say anything is absolutely wrong, but offer instead a nice alternative backed by your own research, which I personally know can go very deep.
I just want you to know that such offerings are most appreciated by the "unclean", the unknowing.

Keep up the good work!
 

Uncle Russ...

[Roaddog]

You sure can stur the pot Puffer. That is some good food for thought. Thanks for the post and photos.

[Riley/MN]

I might have to get me one of them stickers.... Thanks Puffer!

[Puffer]

Just for FUN  :shock:  :lol:

No, I have NO idea of pattern/style ( not a Mason & what little I have seen, from this time period range ALL OVER ( medieval, mil etc, etc. Plain to VERY ornate )

Puffer

[Captchee]

some 30-40 years later  then what your probably looking for .but i always enjoyed this one

[Trois Castors]

Masonic Swords  That's right folks MASONIC SWORDS :lol:  

I get the Man at Arms magazine and they are sometimes in it and also "Oddfellow"swords.

[Uncle Russ]

Captchee, please keep in mind that  I don't know "squat" about swords and such, but that particular sword looks to me like it may well be a Samurai Sword.....no matter which way I turn my head, it makes me think Samurai.  

What do you sword people say?

And, maybe you could elaborate just a little bit on that picture.
That chain running to the butt of the pistol, which appears to be a single-six with its "plow type handles"?

A "Sam Brown" shoulder belt with a double loop holster?

A really striking picture begging for answers from the uninitiated.

Puffer, Trois Castors, since you two seem to know a lot about this, have you got any answers?

Uncle Russ...

[Trois Castors]

The butt of that pistol(with the loop and chain) looks like an R.C.M.P. set-up.

[Captchee]

See now Russ your eyes still work .
 The sword looks like a Japanese Samurai Katana  because that’s what it is
 The photo is of Dog child/ Duck Necklace   and his wife  “Only Handsome Woman “   from 1890

  Dog child was a scout for the  North West Mounted Police . His job was to protect the borders of the Blood Reserve, checking for trespassers and illegal liquor traffic.
 Many folks have speculated that maybe this was a prop . But myself I don’t think so as there are  other photos of the cabin  of Dog Child , showing the sword on the wall .
 Where he got it ? Boy that’s anyone’s guess . By the late 1800’s the Japanese  had some
 Large villages in western Canada . By 1907 Japanese  high ranking emissaries were visiting .
  but we also should remember that the Japanese had recourded contact  here as early as 1610 .

[Uncle Russ]

Thanks Capt!
Guess that certainly explains the looks of things that may seem somewhat out of place, for that day and time, and it explains, with very good reason, just why they appear that way.

Being a Scout for the NWMP certainly explains the Sam Brown Shoulder Belt, as well as the lanyard to the Pistol butt, and who knows....he may well have won that Samurai sword in a Poker Game of high stakes.
I, for one, can certainly see the value in such a piece.

He also seemed proud of his wife and provided for her right nicely, which may be why she carried herself so well, IMO.

As I said before.....a really striking picture, a proud man and woman in every sense.

Uncle Russ...

[Fletcher]

I belong to both Muzzleloader clubs and the SCA (medieval reinactors).  I go as a trader (vendor) to many events in both.  My Marquis trade tent and much of my gear and goods is acceptble to both era.

I have a personna that dates back to the German 'Pfeilmacher' family of the 1240's - on to  England where we became the 'House of Fletcher' (Bow and Arrow trade Guild) from there on to the new world in the early 1800's.  I went west with a great interest in studying the archery eqipment and techniques of the Native Tribes.

That said - I have a cool coat of arms shield and English broad sword of the King Richard era.  If I also carried my 'papers', do you think that would be acceptable to display outside my Marquis at Trade shows and Rondys - even super primitives???