Another try - Renewing old flints

[Catchem]

OK. a drill press won't work. How about a Dremel-type tool or something else?? ANYTHING else?

I'm talking about refreshing the edge of a flint that has been knapped so much in the jaws of the lock that it has now become a thick-edged rock?

I hate to throw them away, but really think that it's 'way past the state where I can put a leather pad on my knee and reshape it ala real flint 'knapping'.

[pathfinder]

Yes,the dremel tool is the way to go. WEAR EYE AND RESPERATORY SAFTEY GEAR!!!!!

At the price of flint's these day's,I may give this some thought!

[Captchee]

all you need is a diamond plate or wheel .  It will take the  flint right down .
 But you don’t even need that .
 
 I would also point out that if your  ending up with large  gun flints with thick round ends , your not knapping your flints correctly .
 What you should be achieving is a sharp edge all they way through the life of the flint . Well tell such time as the flint is to small to hold in the jaws

I hate to throw them away, but really think that it's 'way past the state where I can put a leather pad on my knee and reshape it ala real flint 'knapping'

You can simply bring back a edge  by  striking it , just as one would do  producing an arrow head . I smaller pieces are held in the hand and struck .  or  what you can do is but  some pine blocks in your vice and strike the edge at an angle

[Catchem]

all you need is a diamond plate or wheel .  It will take the  flint right down.  But you don’t even need that . You can simply bring back a edge  by  striking it , just as one would do  producing an arrow head . I smaller pieces are held in the hand and struck .  or  what you can do is but  some pine blocks in your vice and strike the edge at an angle

Thanks. The vise may give me the control I need. Obviously I am not happy with my technique.  I also have read that 'coarse diamond files' are readily available and easy to use and think I will give these a try. Another technique that I have tried, and failed with, is to use a partly opened frizzen to snap the flint against. I really hate hammering because I see all these 'big' (for a gunflint) chunks of flint going off when I hit the edge. Again, thanks.

[Captchee]

I don’t recommend using the frizzen . Though I realize some do .

I would recommend getting you a small brass hammer OR making a Knapping tool “ IE rod “ so as to be able to  knapp the edges of you flint better  so you don’t end up with that thick round flint .
 That rod  will also allow you to place the flints you now have , in a vice and knock the edge back to sharp  .
 Myself I find the small knapping hammers that come with flintlock kits , to be to small . I use a small cheep hammer  from the 1.00 store . Here are a couple photos of  how I use the hammer  as well as how to make a knapping rod

suport the flint with your finger
 strike the edge of the flint at an angle .  this will strike  pieces of the flint  off the bottom of the flint . leaving them on your finger



 simple knapping tool /rod

[rickevans]

Capchee...very good descriptive drawingg of a striking tool. So much better understood (by me anyway) than with lots of words.

[Captchee]

the Notch Rick , doesn’t need to be a drastic ”large “ as I showed in the drawing .  You only need a small notch . The larger notch helps with  thicker more rounded flints ..
 as allways , the angle you strike at is the key . to strait and it will just  knock of chunks of flint .
   just hold it an an angle and use light taps.  it will knock the bottom righ off and bring the flint back to sharp . then all you have to do is  even out the edge  so that its square with the frizzen

[Kermit]

Get yourself a piece of brass rod, say 1/4" diameter by about 4" long--long enough to hold easily. Chuck it in that new drill press and turn it on at low speed. Set a file to the side of the flat end--you did file it flat and smooth, didn't you. You want to file a little step around the end of the rod that's about 1/32" deep and about 1/8" or so of the length of the rod. This little step will knock of tiny chards and sharpen up a flint real well. Cap's drawing shows how to file a straight step, but as was said, it's exaggerated and should be much smaller. See, you get to use that drill press to solve the problem after all!

The advice to not wait too long to knap is good, but you don't need to go overboard either. Nobody's said this, I think, but when it's finally just a rock, it's just a rock. Start afresh. Also, you might do well to send  your lock to someone who will tune it and get the frizzen the right hardness. Can't remember who, but someone advertises that service in Muzzleloader mag, IIRC. That will save you a bunch of trouble and extend the life of flints. I've known a couple of guys who can tune locks and knap flints and regularly get 100+ shots out of a black English flint.

I knew a fellow a lot of years back who used an antler tip to pressure flake a new edge on his flints. Worked for him.

BTW, I'd forget putting an edge on by grinding. Years ago I bought some "cut flints," thinking they were the cat's meow. Not. Couldn't give them away fast enough. I kind of think of them in the same category as plastic/stainless inliners. Almost.

[Stormrider51]

Catchem,
I'm really very sorry but I think you will find that attempting to rework a flint beyond a certain point is impossible or at least not economically desirable.  I believe I understand what you are wanting, a mechanical means to put an edge back on a flint without "knapping".  Regrind it, in other words.  It has already been pointed out that "cut flints" have been around since sometime in the 1970's and were a disappointment even back then.  It appears that you are wanting to economize by getting every possible shot from a flint.  That's fine because we all do but let me ask a question or two if you will.  How many shots do you currently get from a flint before it reaches that "round edged" state?  The flint in my smooth bore has ignited about 70 shots and is still looking good for more.  It is at least 3/16" shorter than it was when originally installed.  I paid $1.65 for that flint and if we assume that 70 shots is all it's good for then it has cost me 2 cents per shot.  If you aren't getting a similar number of shots per flint, and some flints are just better quality than others, then there is something wrong with either your lock, the quality of the flint, or your flint maintenance skills.  Again I'm sorry but flint maintenance means "knapping".  You aren't going to remove the flint from the lock and regrind it on your diamond wheel or file every ten or fifteen shots are you?  I run my thumb over the flint in my Siler lock before every loading.  It's an educated thumb that knows how sharp is "sharp enough".  If it's not sharp enough I take a few seconds to touch up the edge.  A few seconds is all it takes and I'm removing really tiny flakes.  A good flint should never reach a round-edged state.  It will eventually become short enough to not be held in the jaws of the cock and still stick out far enough to scrape down the face of the frizzen.  At that point it is done and it's time for another $1.65 flint.  It's still a bargain.  Percussion caps will cost you almost 9 cents a shot.  The cost of modern ammo blows my mind.  

Storm

[Captchee]

Some good points Stormrider.
 Cut gun flints go back a  long ways . I seem to recall reading  that they were very popular in Germany during the 18th century . I don’t remember right off hand if it was in Greener writings  or maybe one of Skertchly


 The life of a flint  is dictated by a lot of different things .  
 Lock geometry is a big one . Minor angle distortions can  most times be corrected  to suitable outcomes by simply changing the angle of the flint in the jaws  or flipping the flint over so that its bevel up vs. bevel down  OR visa versa  .

 The other thing is learning to chose quality flints .
Myself , I simply hate ordering flints on line  without  having a quality reference from another shooter .
 Back  when I started shooting a lot of flintlocks , we earthier  used /made gun spurs  or we ordered English flints  from Dixie .
 The problem was that when you ordered , a lot of times a % of the flints were either un usable or  very poor in quality . Today , you can ask  and most folks can recommend a person to order  from that  has a reputation of providing on average a higher 5 of usable and quality flints .

 Myself , years back when we heard rumors of Tom Fuller retiring, I jump on it a bought a large quality  of his flints . So  now about the only  thing I buy is French ambers  . Which a couple of my rifles prefer over English flints .

 So my advice  would be , if you have not as of yet  don’t it , learn how to chose a quality flint .. Stay away from the cut  German agates and  two package flints  sold at retailers .
 
 Look for consistent color    through out the flint . You want good angles  and sharp edges . Depending on your lock , you might want a steep  back “rib “ and a slopping front rib type  flint . Or if you have  deep jaws , you might like the double angle .
 Myself I search out and chose flat back / toped flints . I have never been able to get an angled top  of a common flint to hold correctly in the jaws of my rifles

  Next is the placement of the flint to the jaws . A flint that is aloud to move , will not last as long as one that’s solidly mounted . . That means chosing the correct padding for your jaws of your lock .Some folks find lead to be the answer . Myself I use leather . I have tried heavier saddle type leathers . But always seem to come right back to a simple thick piece of chem or Brain tan  leather .

  Now you chose how to mount the flint . Should it be bevel up or bevel down .
  What maters is how the lock sparks  the best . The flint should not slam into the frizzen when the lock is fired . So look at how the flint contacts the frizzen .
At half cock “with a short throw lock “ the flint should be just a whisker off the face of the frizzen  and pointing at around ¾   up the frizzen face . As  you let the cock down , the flint should scrape down the frizzen and shower sparks , NOT try to force itself through the frizzen by slamming into it .

With long fall locks , this is even more important  because their ½  and full cocks are so much farther back . There geometry must be true or they  will eat flints like not tomorrow .

  Once everything is working optimally. IE you have chosen quality flints , set them correctly ….
 Now we can look at  whats happening to your flints .
Do they wear back quickly .
  If so , we then need to look at the edge of the flint . Because the case may be that your getting bounce back from the frizzen and that’s  breaking the edge of the flint  
 But if the case is that the flint is just becoming rounded after repeated shooting  then  we can look just at the cause of that .
  Myself I find that a lot of times this is caused by  people who think they have to sharpen their flints all the time and are doing so an a bad angle .  Thus resulting in a thick dull edged flint .
 IMO if your lock is correct , you have chosen an set the flint correctly ,. Your not getting bounce back , then you should not have to sharpen  you flint anymore then just a light clean up , every 7-10 shots .
 The angle of that clean up is key . Once that correct angle is achieved , a simple repeated light clean up will slowly work the flint back to the point that one day  all you go to move the flint forward and find that  you have a small piece that will not hold to the jaws .
 The only exception to this when you run into a nubb / hard area in the flint . Then you have to bring out  a tool or  use heavier  more directed blows to get that point knocked off. But once you get the tip of that nubb snapped , then it will also once again go back to  only needing light clean up ..

 So with the thick flints you have  collected .
 Take those and set then to the jaws of a padded vice . Either  nap the rib back to the flint  or file it back using a diamond file. Once you have that angle , then you can go back to knapping the edge while its in the gun

[Hanshi]

Good points, Capt.  The "cleaning up" you refer to is something I regularly do before any knapping is needed.  It may be only wiping the fouling off the edge or scraping it with a knife blade or something similar.  Usually I don't bother to clean the edge until it starts to look fouled up.  That might be after as many as 15 or 20 shots + or -.  Once I have my first failure to flash, I usually scrape it.  Often that gives me quite a few more shots before it does it again.  That's when I knapp.  I normally knapp and use that flint until the jaws no longer get a good grip then I put it in my "used flint box".  Just an educated guess but I'm pretty sure I average  at least 60 shots per flint.  I've approached and exceeded 100 shots fairly often.  At the range it doesn't matter how much I have to knapp but I always install a fresh flint at the start of hunting season.  It's not unusual for the flints to self knapp as I shoot.

[Roaddog]

There is a lot of good info here folks for old and new shooters. I would like to thank all that partisapated.

[badger8985]

I rec'd a J P McCoy 36 cal flintlock and want to learn all I can about flints. The lock has L R and marked with three dots under the L R. There was a flint in the jaws that measured about 1/2" across and about 3/4" long. Does that seem to be about the right size for a small .36 cal lock? Is  a L R a good quality lock? I read all the comments in this section and want to know where to get good flints to get the right start, maybe the french ambers .Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Badger

[shootrj2003]

I just did a post somewhere about cut flints apparently made out of the right material some work good enough as some folks like them(I'm not sure-see my first shots post)
 They have been around a long time,I was surprised at this,almost as long as flint locks,I saw,Ithink it wasa list of some things unloaded from a ship in like the 1700 area and it included cut agate flints.

[Captchee]

The cut agate  in the shipping records are  a little different then those offered today .
At least the ones I have seen were .
  Every now and then Dixie will offer up  flints and agates from their store houses of reclaimed  parts and pieces from ship wrecks .  These often are offered with certificates of authenticity , listing the ship, the date of the wreck and a copy of the manifesto showing the  flints or agates .
  In the past when they have  made such offers , the cost has not been to offal bad. Around 5-10.00 for a couple flints or agates .
 IMO  these are great to  buy at least once .
 Not because these are great items  and work better . But because it’s a chance to see and compare with what we have today .
 I have  purchased  both  agates and English gun flints .
 I found the gun flints to work no better then todays gun flints .  This also proved to me. At least in my view that  storing flints in water  doesn’t change anything LOL .
 The agates . Well those were alittle different then those offered today .
 The 2 packs I received were  a milky brown  .and very different  in hardness  . More along the lines of being alittle harder then an French amber . But no where near as hard as the Cut Agates  seen today .
This I discerned by the damage done to the frizzen . Which IMO  on today better quality locks,  is near instantaneous  if one attempts using an agate
 As such I recommend that   if one chooses to use cut agates , at least watch the frizzen .  If your seeing  wear in a short time ,  then you might find it best to  get actual flints . Same goes for ambers . Some times they are just to hard for a given lock .