Lyman Trade Rifle

[RobD]

having fun with my pedersoli .45 kentucky flinter, and now i feel the "need" for a shorter and larger caliber rifle of the flint persuasion.  a good one for the fewest dollar$ and that points to the lyman trade flintlock in perhaps .50 bore.  

never had a lyman, wondering about the quality and the lock and the barrel and, well, everything about it.  

opinions please, good sirs?

[rollingb]

I've talked to a few folks that have them, and I've heard no complaints.  

Sorry I'm not much help beyond that.

[Bigsmoke]

Lyman sells a good rifle.  The lock is a coil main spring affair.  Works pretty good.  Never heard much in the way of complaints.
I am not so positive on this, but I think the Trade Rifle has 1:48 twist.  Which is fine if you are planning on shooting conicals.  Personally, I would opt for the Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist.  Of course, I shoot strictly round ball.
And you are wanting to say .50 caliber, not 50 bore.  Totally different bag of cats.
John

[gunmaker]

Friend has one in .54 perc.  Good all around hunting rifle & not bad at metal targets either.

[TallTexan]

The Trade Rifle has a 1:48 rate of twist and mine is an excellent round ball shooter but only average when it comes to grouping conicals, which is fine because I shoot only RB's now.  As far as which caliber to get, I would recommend the .54 because it is slightly lighter and makes the rifle less nose heavy.  Since this is a non-adjustable, single trigger affair there isn't any tuning to be done but if the lock doesn't function well right out of the box, check to see if the hammer is rubbing on the stock anywhere or if there's a small chip that is binding the lock.  This happened to me and was an easy fix, although I was quite upset at the time as I though the entire lock was bad.  Also, new Lyman barrels usually need a bit of extra polishing in order for the best accuracy to occur.  The easiest and perhaps funnest way of accomplishing this is to just shoot it in, so don't worry if you don't get 1 inch groups right out of the box.  You can also speed up the process using 4-O steel wool or polishing compound and a scrubby pad.

I've owned three Trade Rifles and think they are the best "bang for the buck" deals out there.  They're a bit chunky but built like tanks and can be excellent shoots.  Hope this helps.

[Buzzard]

RB's can be very accurate out of 1:48 twist barrel. The secret is to keep powder charges lower. The RB needs a slower Rev Per Second. Similar charges would be: 100gr-2f in a 1:66 = 70gr-2f in a 1:48. The velocity is slower in the 70gr charge, but, the Revolutions per Second, down range, would be the same, thus, the stabilization/accuracy would be the same. Sam Fadala explain's it quite well in a couple of his black powder loading manual's.

[RobD]

RB's can be very accurate out of 1:48 twist barrel. The secret is to keep powder charges lower. The RB needs a slower Rev Per Second. Similar charges would be: 100gr-2f in a 1:66 = 70gr-2f in a 1:48. The velocity is slower in the 70gr charge, but, the Revolutions per Second, down range, would be the same, thus, the stabilization/accuracy would be the same. Sam Fadala explain's it quite well in a couple of his black powder loading manual's.

very interesting!  thank you for sharing.

[gunmaker]

TC's are 1:48 & are very accurate.  Many critter's & matches have been won by those rifles.

[RobD]

good scoop, thanx everyone.

just ordered a .50 trade flinter.

the more black magic fun the better, eh?  

[Uncle Russ]

RB's can be very accurate out of 1:48 twist barrel. The secret is to keep powder charges lower. The RB needs a slower Rev Per Second. Similar charges would be: 100gr-2f in a 1:66 = 70gr-2f in a 1:48. The velocity is slower in the 70gr charge, but, the Revolutions per Second, down range, would be the same, thus, the stabilization/accuracy would be the same. Sam Fadala explain's it quite well in a couple of his black powder loading manual's.

My friend Buzzard has nailed another one!  

1:48 will shoot a Roundball quite well....however, if you try to push it too fast, ie to much of a powder charge, you will run into accuracy problems.

Several theories on why this is,  but the most prevailing and most likely theory is "skipping"...skipping can be seen in the barrel as "galling" and patches will definitely show a skip, if you find that patch
However, it is hard to duplicate intentionally...if you are getting shotgun patterns with your rifle at 50 yds instead of actual groups, skipping should be a strong suspect for the reason.

Of course there are a dozen or more reasons for really bad groups, but one of the major causes is too much powder, and a patch that is far to thin, or way over thick.

My 1861 Colt 3-Band .58 cal with 1:76 progressive riffling was the hardest gun ever for me to get a grasp on...I was always using too much powder.  It shot a round ball best in the early days, but I later got the Lyman 575213PH (Parker Hale)  560gr Minie Ball to do what it was supposed to do....without blowing the skirt on the bullet......
With Roundball, I started with 60gr and went to 120 gr in 5 gr increments, using several 'different powders' and many different patch thickness / material, and two years later I discovered that what it all boiled down to was a very accurate load using 43gr FFFG Goex....1" groups at fifty yds, consistently and 2.5" groups at one hundred yds, also consistently.....a load I picked up on the NSSA web site.
 It seemed all the rest of world knew this but me....the later on I discovered that not many people at all understand the RPM / RPS (Rev Per Min / Rev per sec) principal...ya gotta keep the ball or projectile within the grooves / rifling of the barrel, or disaster is sure to follow.

With all the "hot loads" I was getting galling and didn't even realize it until I got my first bore light....and it was bad.  



Uncle Russ...

[Hanshi]

A twist of 1-48" is not particularly fast and was quite common in old, original rifles.  If the rifling is reasonably deep, a minimum .015" patch should do well.  If the rifling is shallow, say, less than .005" the prb fit - which should be snug, anyway - should be good and snug so stripping on the shallow grooves won't occur.  I've had excellent accuracy with three .50 rifles using 100 grains of 3F.  All three rifles had 1-48" twists.

[TallTexan]

My TR barrel has been used as the basis for a plains type rifle because it was so accurate in factory form.  This new rifle has a much longer length of pull which was made specifically for me along with a new, left handed breech plug.  It's does best using 85 grains of 2f Goex and a .018 patch and is accurate enough for me to win at the local shooting matches.  I think it boils down to working up an accurate load for each particular rifle but a good starting point is 1.5 times the bore, or about 81 grains for a .54, 75 grains for a .50.

[Bigsmoke]

Looking back on my original Renegade, I would have to also say that the 1:48 twist works well with PRB.  At least, it did for me.
However, there is just something about noticable powder charges that appeals to me.  Hence my preference for big bore, slow twist rifles.  It's just my thing.  But, from a lot of years shooting, and having owned a lot of .54's, I still prefer 1:66 or 1:72 for them.  .50's never impressed me much.  Don't know why.  Owned a few, sold them off pretty fast as a rule.

[RobD]

i might wanna replace the trade lock - is there a better quality replacement that's a drop-in fit?

[rollingb]

i might wanna replace the trade lock - is there a better quality replacement that's a drop-in fit?

Not exactly a !00% "drop-in", as the lock mortise will need "deepened" a bit.......
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... CK-LR-03-F