K, guess I'm doing more shooting lately...

[Uncle Russ]

Uncle Russ is s stinkin expert on this stuff...we'll see whether he'll agree with you potlickers...

LOl...yeah Jim, these old eyes are just great for long range shooting!

I tell ya what I disagree with, Jim Beau.....it's about that load Bigsmoke was shootin....I think it would do more than just "knock you back a bit",  I think it would, in all likelihood, knock your socks off at the same time.

The ballistic chart Riley posted pretty much parallels a similar chart published by Lyman that has been available for years now.
However, like all such charts, the only way you will ever know your own velocity from a given charge of powder. is to shoot it over a chronograph. Otherwise, such charts have little meaning. Extrapolated powder charges, and extrapolated velocity, simply will not work.

I have discovered over many of those same years, that PBR (Point Blank Range) has to be established first, and the farther out the better when shooting Long Range.....However, if PBR is too far out, then mid range becomes as much of a guessing game as Long Range, and you will end up missing just as easily at the shorter ranges as you do at long ranges.

The ballistic coefficient of a round ball stinks!
And, for all practical purposes, the smaller the ball the faster you can push it, resulting in a flatter trajectory  and, along with the flatter trajectory comes the ease of hitting at long range....however, the devil is in the details, because if the round ball is smaller, it is also lighter in weight, and much more subject to wind drift and loss of terminal energy.

So, in answer to your problem Jim, your own guess on hold over, whatever it is, is going to be about as good as it gets .    

Uncle Russ...

[rollingb]

SSE,.... if you can find the posts from years ago (when I built that particular rifle),... I'm pretty sure I stated the "dead on" range I had it sighted in for, also the powder charge used for the 1 3/8" grouping at 100 yards,.... PLUS,..... the velocity of 4 or 5 different loads shot (from that rifle) over my chrony.

I especially remember the 1 3/8" grouping at 100 yds,.... because I was pretty impressed with the way it shot.
...... and I remember checking the loads over the chrony, because my wife borrowed the "read outs" (from the different loads) to show her math class in Basin Wyoming.

I'm pretty sure that info might be around here somewhere, or maybe it was posted on the old forum.

[Fletcher]

Golllllly  Riley - I had no idea that a ball lost over half its energy in 200 yds.

I site in at 75 with 70 gr FFF in my .50 (.495 rb)  and seldom shoot over 100 yds.

Is there a web site for that ballistics stuff that you showed.  That would be great
to work with.  I think I also need a chrono of my actual muzzle velocity and work with
bullet drop and energy from there.
Thanks Pard!

[Uncle Russ]

Jim, the part about using a chronograph must be considered as absolutely essential if you really plan on doing any kind of long range shooting.

I've had a Chrono for years, since back when the really expensive and couldn't be trusted, but now they are much less expensive and VERY reliable.
Contrary to "published" loads / velocities data, I have NEVER been able to achieve book values....but not to worry, I have know for years exactly what a particular load would do in my rifles because I had checked everyone of them.

Once I had those figures it made life much easier, because then all you to had to was match the velocities with the same weight ball to any "drop" table and I was pretty close to being in the ball park.
Still yet, you always have to verify actual impact on paper, and then adjust accordingly.
Like I mentioned earlier, extrapolated trajectories will get you nowhere, fast.

Now speaking of Chronographs, I do have one for sale....rather cheap, in fact.
I'm no longer sure of the accuracy, but just one little bullet hole from a hard cast round ball shouldn't matter all that much, would ya think?



Uncle Russ...

[rollingb]

Jim, the part about using a chronograph must be considered as absolutely essential if you really plan on doing any kind of long range shooting.

I've had a Chrono for years, since back when the really expensive and couldn't be trusted, but now they are much less expensive and VERY reliable.
Contrary to "published" loads / velocities data, I have NEVER been able to achieve book values....but not to worry, I have know for years exactly what a particular load would do in my rifles because I had checked everyone of them.

Once I had those figures it made life much easier, because then all you to had to was match the velocities with the same weight ball to any "drop" table and I was pretty close to being in the ball park.
Still yet, you always have to verify actual impact on paper, and then adjust accordingly.
Like I mentioned earlier, extrapolated trajectories will get you nowhere, fast.

Now speaking of Chronographs, I do have one for sale....rather cheap, in fact.
I'm no longer sure of the accuracy, but just one little bullet hole from a hard cast round ball shouldn't matter all that much, would ya think?



Uncle Russ...

Nice chrony Russ!!!!!!!!    

[Riley/MN]

Golllllly  Riley - I had no idea that a ball lost over half its energy in 200 yds.

I site in at 75 with 70 gr FFF in my .50 (.495 rb)  and seldom shoot over 100 yds.

Is there a web site for that ballistics stuff that you showed.  That would be great
to work with.  I think I also need a chrono of my actual muzzle velocity and work with
bullet drop and energy from there.
Thanks Pard!

I got that from http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/trajectories.html

There used to be a good round ball ballistics site at CT Muzzleloaders site, but that seems to be down now....

[sse]

If you could get someone to stand out there with a yardstick it won't be that bad - I think I am busy that day, however....

Makes no difference, if you were standing out there, I'd shoot way over yer head, just to be on the safe side...lOL

What I'm wondering...we have a "guestimate" of the drop with the bore parellel to the ground...how is the drop effected, if at all, by pointing the bore up some, in an effort to raise POI at 200 yds?

[rollingb]

If you could get someone to stand out there with a yardstick it won't be that bad - I think I am busy that day, however....

Makes no difference, if you were standing out there, I'd shoot way over yer head, just to be on the safe side...lOL

What I'm wondering...we have a "guestimate" of the drop with the bore parellel to the ground...how is the drop effected, if at all, by pointing the bore up some, in an effort to raise POI at 200 yds?

The ball starts dropping the second it leaves the bore,.... actually in principle, all this can be compared to water coming out of a garden hose, and how you have to tip the end of the garden hose up when squirting water on someone standing at a distance from you.

[Uncle Russ]

The ball starts dropping the second it leaves the bore,.... actually in principle, all this can be compared to water coming out of a garden hose, and how you have to tip the end of the garden hose up when squirting water on someone standing at a distance from you.

Very good analogy!

Uncle Russ...

[sse]

True, but no answer to my question.

[Spotted Bull]

There is actually a physics formula, that I can't recall at the moment, that can tell you exactly how high to hold the barrel to get the ball on target. I remember doing a bunch of those equations in high school...of course I can't remember the formula, but I know it exists.

[rollingb]

True, but no answer to my question.

If this is your question,...... "What I'm wondering...we have a "guestimate" of the drop with the bore parellel to the ground...how is the drop effected, if at all, by pointing the bore up some, in an effort to raise POI at 200 yds?"

There is a "breaking point" in distance gained by elevating the muzzle, and I think that breaking point is somewhere around 40-45 degrees of elevation,... anything above that, results in less distance the ball will travel. Keep raising the muzzle until you're shooting straight up and the ball will land on your head  :rt th

[Two Steps]

sse, I think I have it figured out for ya...if you're shooting at a gong at about 200m distant...with everything else (ball, powder, patch etc) being the same...put the very tip of your front sight all the way down in your rear sight
and aim center mass right  here [size=150]X[/size]!
 :happy  
No need to thank me...
Al

[sse]

No need to thank me...

That's a relief...

[Two Steps]

Oops...darn, forgot to tell ya...ya need to print that X off and paste it to the air...about 5 feet over the gong