Shooting Tips and Tricks Thread

[Hanshi]

The bench versus offhand question has been around longer than Uncle Russ; the main jist being that different bench height's cause different problems. An offhand shooter must use a bench that aligns his head, neck, and shoulder area in the same plane as standing upright. If sitting on a bench or chair, that puts the bench height for me at about 42". Anytime you must hunker down and snug into your stock, you'll have problems. The cant of the head, and therefore, your eyes, WILL cause your shots to go astray. As your eyes rotate upward, the surface of it changes from round to oval and distorts the picture. Holding your head still, you'll always see better looking straight forward than looking up, down, or sideways. I feel that's also why eyeglasses are ground to different thicknesses as they follow the contour of the glass around the eye. At least that's my 2 cents.

I agree completely as this has been my experience, also.

[Uncle Russ]

The bench versus offhand question has been around longer than Uncle Russ...

 :shock:

Some good thoughts here. Still yet, I still feel strongly that nothing actually beats a good off-hand zero for hunting.
FWIW; I have often put my hand / fist against a tree for support when hunting, I have used a shooting stick with a leather strap that four fingers rest into, with the thumb supporting the rifle, and I have used crossed-sticks.
The closest thing to a bench in the field is cross sticks shooting prone, IMHO.

No matter what support or assist I use, I make double sure that the naked barrel of the rifle I'm shooting never touches anything.
As far as that "just right" placement of the stock on the assist, I've personally never been astute enough to notice much, if any, difference on where the stock was placed, but I do think I prefer something closer back toward the trigger guard. Others will swear by their own "sweet-spot" and try hard to place the assist in the exact same spot every time,  and that is just as it should be.

I am not convinced that the location of "that exact spot" is really the answer, but I strongly believe that consistency in placing it in the same place will have some influence on the harmonics....especially if the assist is of something hard / rock solid, such as wood or metal.
Properly assembled cross-sticks have a leather thong that the stock fits on, vs sitting on hard wood, and a few of the old timers believe that is the real secret to their success.

Uncle Russ...

[Stormrider51]

I did not intend to start an argument over benched vs offhand but it seems I have done so.  At this point I can only say that I always sight in from the bench.  That's where I develop the most accurate load.  I want to take as much of the "me" as possible out of the equation.  I use soft padding between the fore end and the rest and I make sure the rest contacts the fore end at the same place my hand does when shooting offhand.  The groups will be bigger when shooting offhand but the point of aim/impact would be the same.  But that's what works for me.  Others obviously have different experiences.  It's all part of the mystique of muzzleloading.  Rather than claim benching the gun doesn't work, why not just tell us what works for you?  Shoot some targets from a bench and then repeat from offhand.  Post photos of both.  Beats bashing others techniques.

Storm

[Ron T.]

That seems reasonable to me, Storm... so here goes...!    


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Buzzard]

I will whole heartedly agree on one thing Russ, sighting in for 'field shooting' is important. I 'almost' never take a shot at a living being without some type of rest, be it a tree, post, log, ramrod, etc. I do still sight in at the bench. The bench is a much better shot than i am. That gives me the confidence i need to have, knowing that if i miss, it ain't the guns fault. The POI is always the same, if i sight in off of a tall bench with  a straight back and neck, same as i do in the field. This has been a really good topic.

[Captchee]

Ok ill join in but as always this is just my opinion .
*First and foremost is to  find the proper load and zero for your rifle “not to be confused with you “
 To do that I shoot from the bench .  When shooting from the bench I don’t care  what  my off hand group is . The purpose is only to find the load that produces the best group  for the gun .  Doing so means removing as much of the shooter from the weapons system as possible .IE the bench .
  the next step is to  sight the rifle in . if you’re an off hand shooter like myself ,  that mean sighting it in off hand .

 
* when shooting off hand  I do not grip the forestock  like you would a modern center fire . Frankly there is no need to do that . What I do is just rest the forearm in my  left hand by creating a “V” with my thump.
 Others  I shoot with use the open palm and still others use a 2 finger  rest with the thumb on the TG and the  index finger on the wood of the stock . I also do not support my off hand arm on my body .
What this does is reduce the amount of input your body had on the gun itself   and thus reduce the tendency to pull the gun to the left  upon ignition  

* next is proper shooting stance .  I use a side stance where the  gun is across my body . Others use a forward stance . But what they both have in common is a 90 degree angle of the  upper arm.
 Using the  shooting hand to pull the rifle into my shoulder  or upper arm depending on the rifle  and how well it fits you.

* next is a consistent  cheek anchor . If the gun is properly fit  then the anchor will be consistent each time . However if its not , then  place a piece of tape on the cheep of the stock so as to train yourself to  place your cheek in the same spot each time

* to  teach yourself proper trigger pull and reduce flinch
 For a flintlock make a wood flint . For a cap lock use a simple black faucet washer and place it over the nipple  so as to not damage the nipple . Then take a couple quarters and place then on the top  flat of the barrel or with a round barrel balance it on the top of the barrel . When you  finish you firing of the lock . The quarters should still be resting on the barrel . If the are not you have flinched . Practice tell you don’t lose your money .

*  follow through is also important  do not drop , look up or otherwise move  once the gun is fired .  Hold your sight picture tell the  smoke clears. You should still be sighted on the target  

*  make yourself a firing regiment and stick to it . What this means is get into a pattern of sequences  from step one  of loading , right through trigger pull .
 Mine is .  
Add powder . Tamp the stock to settle powder.  Lay ticking across muzzle   place ball . Start ball  only to level of muzzle . Cut ticking . Seat ball to powder .  Replace RR. Check vent and flint  . Pick or Knapp if needed . Prime pan and close frizzen . Turn sideways to target . Bring rifle to full cock ,  Raise rifle  muzzle above target , around 45 degrees and settle into to shoulder . . . Set trigger .  Taking a deep breath  and hold  it . Looking through sights drop down on target  and let sights settle through target .  Slowly raise  back up to target .   Begin trigger pull . Follow through .
 While this seems a lot  once you get it down its very quickly done as it becomes 2nd nature .

 Regardless of what you use for a sequence. Train you  to do the same thing over and over

[Stormrider51]

Ok ill join in but as always this is just my opinion .
*First and foremost is to  find the proper load and zero for your rifle “not to be confused with you “
 To do that I shoot from the bench .  When shooting from the bench I don’t care  what  my off hand group is . The purpose is only to find the load that produces the best group  for the gun .  Doing so means removing as much of the shooter from the weapons system as possible .IE the bench .
  the next step is to  sight the rifle in . if you’re an off hand shooter like myself ,  that mean sighting it in off hand .

 
* when shooting off hand  I do not grip the forestock  like you would a modern center fire . Frankly there is no need to do that . What I do is just rest the forearm in my  left hand by creating a “V” with my thump.
 Others  I shoot with use the open palm and still others use a 2 finger  rest with the thumb on the TG and the  index finger on the wood of the stock . I also do not support my off hand arm on my body .
What this does is reduce the amount of input your body had on the gun itself   and thus reduce the tendency to pull the gun to the left  upon ignition  

* next is proper shooting stance .  I use a side stance where the  gun is across my body . Others use a forward stance . But what they both have in common is a 90 degree angle of the  upper arm.
 Using the  shooting hand to pull the rifle into my shoulder  or upper arm depending on the rifle  and how well it fits you.

* next is a consistent  cheek anchor . If the gun is properly fit  then the anchor will be consistent each time . However if its not , then  place a piece of tape on the cheep of the stock so as to train yourself to  place your cheek in the same spot each time

* to  teach yourself proper trigger pull and reduce flinch
 For a flintlock make a wood flint . For a cap lock use a simple black faucet washer and place it over the nipple  so as to not damage the nipple . Then take a couple quarters and place then on the top  flat of the barrel or with a round barrel balance it on the top of the barrel . When you  finish you firing of the lock . The quarters should still be resting on the barrel . If the are not you have flinched . Practice tell you don’t lose your money .

*  follow through is also important  do not drop , look up or otherwise move  once the gun is fired .  Hold your sight picture tell the  smoke clears. You should still be sighted on the target  

*  make yourself a firing regiment and stick to it . What this means is get into a pattern of sequences  from step one  of loading , right through trigger pull .
 Mine is .  
Add powder . Tamp the stock to settle powder.  Lay ticking across muzzle   place ball . Start ball  only to level of muzzle . Cut ticking . Seat ball to powder .  Replace RR. Check vent and flint  . Pick or Knapp if needed . Prime pan and close frizzen . Turn sideways to target . Bring rifle to full cock ,  Raise rifle  muzzle above target , around 45 degrees and settle into to shoulder . . . Set trigger .  Taking a deep breath  and hold  it . Looking through sights drop down on target  and let sights settle through target .  Slowly raise  back up to target .   Begin trigger pull . Follow through .
 While this seems a lot  once you get it down its very quickly done as it becomes 2nd nature .

 Regardless of what you use for a sequence. Train you  to do the same thing over and over

 

[1Poet]

Thanks,Cap

[Muley]

You needs targets with a bull as big as a deer kill zone, and you've got it made.

[Muley]

It was a joke.

[Uncle Russ]

IMHO, I think Captchee pretty much nailed it on the zero from the bench thingy.

I like the way it could be summarized.  In essence he said, "the bench zero is to remove all of "you" from the gun that's possible, and the off-hand is to install as much of "you" as possible back, so you and the gun become a unit of one".....makes perfect sense to me.

And, much like greyhunter, I do the best I can with what I've got.
Sometimes I truly shine, and sometimes.....not so much.
Still yet, I do enjoy every range session, and every hunting trip I can squeeze in.
At my age I consider each and every one a real bonus.

Uncle Russ...

[Stormrider51]

I'm finding it very interesting to read all the different ways people approach shooting.  We have everything from "don't use a bench at all" to "seldom shoot without a rest of some sort".  I'm in agreement with Captchee although I don't do things exactly as he described.  I do all load development AND sighting in from the bench.  I described my technique earlier.  And while I've shot competition offhand, I do like Uncle Russ and try to find some sort of support when hunting, even if it is only placing the hand holding the fore end against a tree and laying the gun across my extended thumb.  Like Captchee, I never grip the fore end.  And shooting at, much less hitting, a running deer?  I've never even tried.  My hat is off to Greyhunter!  You are welcome in my camp anytime.

Storm

[snake eyes]

"the bench zero is to remove all of "you" from the gun that's possible, and the off-hand is to install as much of "you" as possible back, so you and the gun become a unit of one"

Darn Russ, I was just getting ready to say that same thing That Captchee
sure thinks well don't he??

snake-eyes  

[Stormrider51]

Changing the subject just a bit, how many of you remove the barrel from the stock for cleaning?  I do and it's because of hidden rust.  A good example is the Pedersoli Brown Bess I recently purchased.  I removed the lock and barrel so I could get a look at what was under there.  The interior of the lock was fine but I found the bottom of the barrel speckled with rust spots.  Nothing bad.  A minute or so with oil and steel wool took care of it but what if I had left it to grow?  Over the years I saw far too many guns in my shop with deep pitting in the hidden areas.  We are so careful about the bore so why do we ignore the outside of the barrel under the wood?  I know why manufacturers and makers don't encourage removal.  It is very easy to splinter the wood around the pin.  (Ham fisted people have also been known to break the fore end.)  Here's a way to avoid damage to the pin holes.  First, always remove and insert the pins from the same side.  For example, if you insert the pins from left to right, push them back out from right to left.  That way the pins always enter and exit from the same side.  Get a drift punch the same size as the pins holding your barrel in the stock.  Most folks have a Dremel type tool nowadays.  Chuck up a grinding ball in it and carefully grind the tip of the punch so it is concave.  Imagine holding the straightened index finger of each hand out in front of you and pressing the tips together.  One tip is the punch and the other the ball on the Dremel.  Tip to tip so the punch grinds evenly to have a slight cavity.  It doesn't take much.  The idea is that we want the punch to center itself on the barrel pin instead of sliding off.  Now take each pin and file the tips so they are tapered.  The concave punch face and tapered end of the pins will work together to keep them aligned.  Tapering the pins also decreases the likelihood of splintering the wood as the pin is removed.

One last suggestion before I close.  While you have the barrel out of the stock apply a good coat of furniture wax to the barrel channel.  I was often amazed to find a gun with a beautifully finished stock exterior and raw wood in the barrel channel.  The same moisture that can cause the barrel to rust under there can cause the stock to eventually soften and rot.

Storm

[snake eyes]

One last suggestion before I close.  While you have the barrel out of the stock apply a good coat of furniture wax to the barrel channel.  I was often amazed to find a gun with a beautifully finished stock exterior and raw wood in the barrel channel.  The same moisture that can cause the barrel to rust under there can cause the stock to eventually soften and rot.

Storm,
         For whatever reason I have done exactly that.....I was always concerned about
the bottom of the barrel when in the channel for any length of time. Now I know I was preserving the stock wood as well.
snake-eyes