Frontier Rifle Care

[RobD]

Seasoning is what makes cast iron cookware so prized for cooking. What is the best way to season a barrel on a flinter? And, can a barrel that has been cleaned by water, etc., be seasoned somehow?

for me, the answer to both yer questions was to first clean out the pedersoli barrel rust with pblaster - this took over 3 laborious weeks of multi cleaning per day using a bronze brush and patched jag, what a PITA!  but i got down to relatively clean, unrusted steel.  from that point on i cleaned the barrel with dutch's moose milk formula (DMM) for cleaning out the barrel after shooting black powder = after each shot and after a shooting session ...

DMM
****
1 part Ballistol
1 part Lestoil or Pinesol
2 parts hydrogen peroxide
20 parts water

1. Between Every Shot - lightly saturate a patch with DMM, it should not be wet, just damp, and run it down and up the barrel only ONCE.  Clean the pan and touch hole.  Reload.

2. After Every Shooting Session - run wet DMM patches down the barrel until they come relatively "clean", run down a few dry patches, last patch should be saturated with WD-40, and leave that patch/ramrod down the barrel.  Remove the lock and clean with DMM, dry off the lock, re-install.

[Stormrider51]

Seasoning is one of those controversial subjects.  RFD is obviously an advocate.  I've been cleaning muzzleloaders with boiling water all my life and never experienced a barrel rusting afterward.  Maybe it's that boiling water heats the steel and evaporates.  Don't know.

Storm

[Dewey]

From a chemical point-of-view (btw, I am a chemist), water molecules can NOT enter into nor bind to the steel.

They might, however, hide in small pockets on the surface.

And of course if there is already some rust, they might bind there (rust being an ionic compound).

I have used boiling water successfully when I clean my muzzleloaders  - I get the barrel hot enough that I have to hold it with a towel - the extra heat really helps with the water removal.

[mario]

 A trained British soldier could sometimes get off three shots a minute and that was using paper cartridges where the powder and ball was in one package.  Try doing that yourself.  Now try getting off three aimed shots.

A few years ago, I could. BUT, it takes  A LOT of practice AND you must stay in practice.

British troops were discouraged from aiming because it slowed the rate of fire.

Actually another one of our myths about the Revolution. Much like the Brits fought in a line and we won because we his behind trees.


"have at the breech a small sight channel made, for the advantage and convenience of taking better aim."
-Major General the Earl of Cavan

"...proper marksmen to instruct them in taking aim, and the position in which they ought to stand when firing."
-Lt. General Gage, order concerning new recruits and drafts received 3 days prior to Bunker Hill.

"The regiments are frequently practiced at firing with ball at marks....and premiums are sometimes given for the best shots, by which means some of out men have become excellent marksmen."
-Lt. Fredrick Mackenzie, 23rd Regiment of Foot. Boston, Jan. 1775

"PRESENT!...and raise up the Butt so high upon the right Shoulder, that you may not be obliged to stoop too much with the Head, the right Cheek to be close to the Butt, and the Left Eye shut, and look along the Barrel with the right eye from the Breech Pin [plug] to the Muzzel;"
-The Manual Exercise As Ordered by His Majesty, In 1764.

Mario

[Stormrider51]

Mario, I have deep respect for your historical knowledge but if the part about not aiming is a myth it is an extremely popular myth.  I already knew that Continentals formed line abreast like British troops.  But deliberate aimed fire as we know it today?

Storm

[mario]

Mario, I have deep respect for your historical knowledge but if the part about not aiming is a myth it is an extremely popular myth.  I already knew that Continentals formed line abreast like British troops.  But deliberate aimed fire as we know it today?

Storm

Not exactly as today ("Aim small, Miss small" actually came from gunsmith Frank House who was helping train Mel Gibson for "The Patriot"   ), but a far cry from "just point it in that direction." Light infantry in the 1770s were actually directed to come up with the most accurate load for their firelocks and make their own cartridges.

There are many 18th century "facts" that are popular and not actually true.

Not aiming.
Patriots hiding behind trees.
Patriots all had rifles and the Brits all had muskets.
Paul Revere riding down the road yelling "The British are coming."
The Brits lined up shoulder-to-shoulder.
The Brits never learned how to fight in anything other than linear formations.

And one could go on.

Mario

[RobD]

From a chemical point-of-view (btw, I am a chemist), water molecules can NOT enter into nor bind to the steel.

They might, however, hide in small pockets on the surface.

And of course if there is already some rust, they might bind there (rust being an ionic compound).

I have used boiling water successfully when I clean my muzzleloaders  - I get the barrel hot enough that I have to hold it with a towel - the extra heat really helps with the water removal.

no matter what one believes, water and steel will never ever be a happy marriage.  using water soluble oil just makes more sense and is actually far easier and faster to use than dealing with hot water, or any manner of basic water.  to each their own, it's all good if it works best for you.  

[Dewey]

no matter what one believes, water and steel will never ever be a happy marriage.  

Well, I agree with that ... you don't want to "soak" the barrel, just get the salts that will cause rust out  with the water asap (well, a minute or two). The salts need the water for removal ("like dissolves like").

The advantages to hot water is that it will quickly dissolve the salts, it has far less dissolved oxygen (the main rust initiator) than warm or cold water (a concept my students have problems with), and the heat transmitted to the barrel helps evaporate the remaining water.

Afterwards, the barrel definitely needs additional drying and then protection from both oxygen and moisture, using the fat or oil you like the best.

I find the idea of "seasoning" the barrel intriguing, and it is not necessarily incompatible with using hot water if you are careful, IMHO.

But as rdf said, use whatever works for you !!!

[RobD]

not to beat a very dead horse too much more  

after cleaning out with DMM, and a dry patch comes out reasonably clean, a WD40 wet patch goes down to the chamber and it and the rod stays there.  when ready to reload/shoot, that oil can be mostly swabbed out with a few dry patches, or if not hunting i fire off about 30 grains to clean out the tube, do a quick in-out of moist-only DMM, load up.

yep, YMMV!  

[sse]

Interesting method you have there, rfd...you seem to have the DMM working for you.  I have found that whatever kind of "solvent" I use, this must be cleaned out well with clean water.  Otherwise I think that remnants of moisture can remain deposited and that soon leads to superficial rust.   Now, I have seen innumerable debates about the use of hot water in the process, with fellows asserting various rationale either way, but have never seen the reasoning mentioned by Dewey.  I already am right at the sink for my cleaning process, so I may just begin using hot water as the flush.

Seasoning of the bore...this can be another contentious concept.  I don't think it has much application to the bore of a muzzleloader.  I understand the seasoning of cast iron, applying it, increasing it, preserving it and also what it takes to damage or remove it.  But, considering we are shooting, then going through a thorough cleaning process, I can say for sure that if there is any protective layer that exists in a well-used bore, it doesn't have characteristics in common with the example cited.

One may fancy conceiving that a seasoning exists in a bore after breaking in, but I don't know how one could know much about it, or whether the lack or existence of rust is in any way dependent of the condition of the "seasoning".  If that is the case, then the whole issue is irrelevant.