I think I got lucky! Another Brown Bess?

[Stormrider51]

I was checking out the blackpowder listings on a sale/trade type website located here in Texas and came across an ad listing a Pedersoli Brown Bess.  Seller states it is unfired.  The photos he sent me look good.  He wants $500.  My ability to hear has gotten bad enough that the phone and I aren't on speaking terms anymore so I got my wife to make the call.  I'm heading up to Georgetown this morning to meet the seller and if everything is as he claiims I'll be coming home with another Bess.  I don't really need another Bess but for that price I can't let it pass.

This also sets up an opportunity.  My other Bess was made in India.  Here's my chance to do a head-to-head comparison.  I plan to run all the accuracy testing on the Pedersoli that I did on the Indian version.  It will be interesting.

Storm

[snake eyes]

Storm,
          Keep us posted,as you usually do. Should be very interesting
to see what you come up with.

snake-eyes  

[Hanshi]

Interesting and then some.  We'll be standing by for your next post.

[Stormrider51]

Just a quick update.  I met the gentleman this morning.  He told me he bought the Bess from an estate sale.  He wasn't kidding about "never fired".  The face of the frizzen didn't have any scratches on it.  There were no dents or scratches in the walnut stock either.  From what I could see standing in a parking lot, the bore was bright.  I made the deal and walked away giggling.  I'm not usually the giggly sort but getting a $1,000+ gun for $480 can do that to me.

I have some initial photos uploaded but have family coming for twin g-kids b-day party.  Just let me say that I did get one moment of anxiety once I got home.  I ran an oily cleaning patch down the bore and came up with what looked like bits of rotten wood from down near the breech.  I had sudden visions of someone having broken off a ram rod when they stuck a patch.  No, it turned out to be dried parts of what appears to have been a large grasshopper.  The bore was rust free.  

Storm

[ridjrunr]

That's awesome Storm,lookin forward to pictures when you can.
Pedersolis  are great guns.  

[Stormrider51]

The kids are gone and I've had time to sort the photos and find I'm already conflicted.  While I got a great deal on the Pedersoli the simple fact is that retail on them is almost $1,300 and I'm going to compare it to a gun that cost me $525.  Is this really fair?  On the other hand, the Pedersoli Bess has some proving to do when it comes to accuracy potential.  The India gave me one ragged hole at 21 yards using a patched ball.  That's going to be hard to beat.  Here's some preliminary observations and a few photos.

I really can't judge historical details.  I'm a shooter, not a historian or re-enactor.  I'm hoping those with more knowledge about the historical correctness of these two guns will contribute their observations.  I'm going to start with the more minor points between these two muskets.  The barrel is not as highly polished externally on the Ped as on the India.  I really prefer the less reflective surface in a hunting gun.  Wood to metal fit on the Ped is better.  Not a great deal better but better none the less.  The inletting of parts was clearly done with machinery, not chisels.  The vent on the Ped is smaller.  Don't know if this will make a difference in ignition of the main charge or not.  The vent on the Ped is NOT in the proper "sunset" position.  It is slightly too low.  Again, only shooting will determine if this matters.  When I get to the lock I start to question myself.  To my eyes that are accustomed to mass produced cast and CNC machined parts the Ped looks to be of higher quality.  Edges are crisper.  I didn't have any of the problems I had with the India before I tuned and polished it.  Of course the Ped isn't factory fresh so I don't know if somebody else had to do some tuning before I got it.  The frizzen pan cover and pan mate quite well.  FFFFg priming will not escape the pan on the Ped as there is the merest glimmer of light between the two parts.  I did a couple of light file strokes on the working parts of the Ped and learned that the parts are tempered harder than those on the India.  I was borderline concerned about the India parts because they seemed a little soft.  Not badly but enough to possibly cause them to wear out faster.  Would this matter over the lifetime of the average shooter?  Probably not.

As I said, when it comes to accuracy the Ped will have some proving to do against the India.  I did notice that the stock geometry on the Ped and India must be different.  When I shoulder the India I have to press my cheekbone down into the stock to an uncomfortable degree and my eyes are still perched well above the barrel.  The stock on the Ped allows me to get a lower view along the top of the barrel without mashing my face.  Again, whether this will be proven an advantage when I shoot the Ped remains to be seen.

Storm

[Thunder Bay]

AWESOME!!  I look forward to hearing about your accuracy tests.  Congrats

[snake eyes]

Storm,
         Looks like you made a great find! [/color]

[oscarlovel]

I had hoped to fire my new Pedersoli Bess this past weekend, but spent it sick in the bed instead. Will be at the range next Saturday --- God willing. Have you measured your bore. Mine is new from Cabela's and measures 0.745". Found some nice ticking that wraps beautifully around a 0.715 ball. Also got my shot bag full and have wads, overpowder and overshot cards as well. Oh, btw, Cabelas had these on sale for $950. They may still be on sale. Great buy on yours!!

[Stormrider51]

The bore on my Pedersoli measures .747".  I had intended to go out this morning and run at least the first series of accuracy tests but radar showed a line of heavy thunderstorms bearing down on us from the northwest.  It looks like they have all passed now so I may yet get to shoot.

Storm

[oscarlovel]

Yeah. That rain is over us in Shreveport right now. Be glad when it clears out.

[Stormrider51]

Every time I have ever thought I had something figured out when it came to shooting I've had a gun come along and show me I wasn't so smart after all.  Women too, but we don't need to go there.  I got out this afternoon and shot the Pedersoli Bess.  I was shooting from the exact same bench and distance (21 yds) and using the same powder charge, patches, and balls.  I even used balls from the same batch I had purchased from TOW instead of the ones I cast from my new Tanner mould.  I used FFg as priming powder because that's what I'd used in the India.  I wanted everything as close to being the same as possible.  There were three things that were different and beyond my control.  The bore on the India Bess mikes .755".  The one on the Pedersoli is tighter at .747".  The India has a 39" barrel where the Pedersoli measures 42".  The final difference was the weather conditions.  Today was 90 F, pressure 29.77, and humidity at 67%.  The winds were light and variable.  No gusts to swat me around.

I decided to forego the paper cartridge testing.  All I proved with the India Bess was that the stories about inaccuracy were true.  I went directly to PRB.  And I got a surprise.  Take a look at the photo of the PRB group.  It's nothing to write home about and much larger than the one ragged hole the India Bess gave me.  The India Bess wins that one hands down.

Next I tried wadding with a bare ball and got another surprise.  I ran down a wad of tow, dropped in the ball, and followed it with another wad of tow.  I didn't even try to measure, weigh or otherwise be sure the amount of tow was consistent.  The five shot group was actually better than the one I fired with PRB.  See the photo.  I think I hear Mario laughing from here.

All this tells me is something I've known for years.  Every gun is a universe unto itself.  I knew from the outset that the accuracy demonstrated by the India Bess with PRB would be hard to beat.  I just thought the Italian gun would at least come close.  I was wrong.  Now I need to start working up a load for it that does.  The first thing I'll try is lubing the patches.  I've developed a technique that is sort of a reversal of the Schoultz "dry patch" idea.  Instead of soaking patches in the water and Ballistol solution I've been using the solution as a bore wipe between shots.  So instead of lubing the patches I'm lubing the bore.  It obviously worked well in the India Bess but did it cause a problem with the Italian?  I'll find out.

Storm

[Stormrider51]

The extreme difference between the groups shown by the Italian Bess vs the India really bugged me.  I understand that some guns are more accurate than others but that much?  From 21 yards?  Then, in the middle of the night, an idea came to me.  First thing this morning I took a tape measure to both guns.  The length of pull on the India is 14".  That of the Italian is 14.5".  There's also a slight but noticeable difference in the degree of drop in the butt.  The result is that even when mashing my face down on the stock of the India my eyes are still well above the barrel while I can get a much lower view on the Italian.  What would happen if I consciously moved my head to where I had the same view of the barrel and front "sight"?  That means I'd need to shoot the Italian to find out.  Darn!  Forced to shoot for the second day in a row?    Life is hard.

I sat down at the bench with the India and got into shooting position.  I tried to memorize the view of the barrel and front sight.  Then I switched to the Italian and did my best to attain the same view.  I loaded and fired five shots exactly as I did yesterday.  The photo shows the results.  The India still wins but not by nearly as great a degree.  Next I'll try varying the powder charge.

Storm

[TallTexan]

Well, we're waiting to see your new one...........

You KNOW the one I'm talking about.

[Stormrider51]

Telling off on me are you?  Okay, I bought an English fowler.  There.  Happy now?    

Actually, it's TT who is looking for a smoothbore.  I was trying to help and scouting different websites when I found the listing for the fowler.  Walnut stock, .62 cal/20 G octagon to round barrel, L&R Queen Anne lock.  Looked good in the photos.  I forwarded the info to him.  Unfortunately, the length of pull was too short.  Too short for him that is but not for me.  I have two Brown Besses so I put the Pedersoli up for sale locally (to avoid shipping).  Now I'm the owner of the English fowler.  The photos didn't do it justice.  Neither do the ones I took and will post here.  I don't know who made it but they know their trade.  The only possible clue is that on the upper left barrel flat just ahead of the breech is a Crown with either R J. or K J. under it.  If anyone recognizes that please let me know.  The lock mortise was done on a machine.

Anyway, I had a doctor appointment this afternoon so I didn't get to do a great deal of shooting but I did try it out.  (See photos)  In spite of one flyer the gun turned in a very credible performance and that's without any load development.  I had to shoot, clean, and run or I'd have worked with it more.  There's always tomorrow.

Storm