fouling issue

[lbothell]

Hey everyone, new to the site and have found it most helpful but have a question on  topic that seems simple but I can't find an answer. My problem is my .45 long rifle is building up black powder residue down at the breech so much that I need to use a scraper probably every 6 or 7 shots because I can tell when I load it it isn't on my mark on my ram rod. The gun shoots lights out, I run a patch after each shot and when I'm done I clean it better then I clean myself ha. I keep the business end down once cleaned so i dont get oil build up on the breech, It is a VERY clean gun. Now i did notice when I got the rifle it seemed like there was rust down by the breech because it was rough the first time I cleaned it. I used a brass brush and got it worked out smooth and cleaned it well. Could this be the reason why it's such a dirty shooter. If it's me i can fix that, but I shoot the same way with my .40 and I don't have this problem at all. I'm new (but addicted) to black powder shooting/hunting and would like to find an answer to this problem, any help would be much appreciated!

[RobD]

lotsa questions just for starters, sir - is this a production rifle or custom, flint or cap, does it have a patent breech, what powder brand and granularity are you using, what are you using to lube the patch, what size ball and what thickness patch?

[lbothell]

Okay, custom built .45 flintlock, no patent breech, 3F GOEX, .019 pillow ticking for patch, spit for lube while at the range (which is all I've been doing) .440 Hornady round ball.

[RobD]

ok, gotcha.  you should be able to shoot that rifle for at least dozens of firings without swabbing the bore.

some things come to mind.  use a thinner 100% cotton patch, like .015".  use a better patch lube.  i use patching that's been pre saturated with "gato feo" bpcr lube - first rubbed in and then melted in with a heat gun - but there are lotsa good patch lube components and processes that will help soften the residue.  moist breath air down the tube helps soften the residue (as we do with a blow tube for bpcr).  when you push the ball down the tube, and the patching contacts the fouling, bounce the ramrod on the ball/patch.  this will add the proper force to both get it past the fouling and to best compress the powder while at the same time assuring there is no dreaded air space 'tween patched ball and powder.  this bouncing will not deform the lead ball if the tip of yer rod is concave.

[lbothell]

Sounds like a good start to me! If these things don't help could it be that the bottom part of my barrel has pitted because of the rust I encountered on the first cleaning. Would the pitting collect and gunk up the fouling? It is a custom gun that I found at a local gun shop that was said to be new but was in the gun shop for a while and I don't believe was cleaned property, I'm assuming it was shot a couple times.

[RobD]

aha, barrel rust.  it's amazing how many good barrels are lost due to negligence.  rust itself won't be the issue, but pitting can easily give purchase to the bp residue, and since that's where the fouling has been building up it sounds like a culprit candidate.  can you pull the breech plug and examine the chamber?  is it a full stock or hooked tang half stock?

[lbothell]

It's a full stock, i could take it to Dixons a he could pull it. Kinda stinks cause its a Getz and I know there not making barrels anymore. But like I said that barrel shoots like a dream it's just the fouling. So I'm kinda out of luck huh. I don't want to get it rebored I love the 45 caliber and don't want a 50

[RobD]

a gunsmith could best determine if either polishing or a rebore is required ... that is, IF there is pitting, and if pitting is drastically adding to the chamber area fouling.  i had that same fouling issue with a used pedersoli .45 i bought a few years back, and i knew there was a rat's nest of chamber rust.  i used pb-blaster to loosen it all up and that took nearly a week.  then i pulled the patent breech - no easy task! - and eventually sanded down the chamber pitting to a fair degree with a drill and a mandrill with abrasive paper.  put it all together and the fouling was less, but i could never get off more than 5 or 6 shots before the fouling needed purging.  .45 is nice caliber, but i wouldn't hesitate to bore it a tad larger if that would stop the chamber fouling.  i prefer a .50 these dayze over .45's, too.

[lbothell]

Well I thank you for all the help it definitely puts my mind at ease getting some answers. I'll keep shooting it and doing what I can to keep it clean and after hunting season I'll get it  checked out.

[RobD]

worst case, it's a barrel bore pitting issue, and if so i wouldn't sweat a rebore to .50 caliber.  getz barrels are goodies, and deserve to be preserved!

good luck this season!

[PetahW]

It's a full stock, i could take it to Dixons a he could pull it.  

So I'm kinda out of luck huh.

I don't want to get it rebored I love the 45 caliber and don't want a 50

IMHO, yore not outta luck yet............... I would suggest having the breechplug pulled to examine the rearmost portion of the bore first.

1) The rusty area can be polished out w/o disturbing the breechplug threads in the barrel, and simply result is a powder chamber that's only slightly larger than the bore - only a problem with light powder charges that allow boolit/ball seating that deep.

2) The breech end of the barrel can be cut off, ridding the barrel of the pitted area, then re-threaded for the breechplug.

Yes, the barrel will be a bit shorter, and the tip of the forestock will needs be reworked shorter also - but the rifle will be rid of the pitting, which will quickly foul, forever (if not totally removed).

#2, however, is IMO not doable if the barrel's swamped.


.

[lbothell]

Yeah it's swamped but having it polished out might be the ticket. So what do you consider a light load? 30grains of fff? Cause that's what I like shootin out of it haha

[Hanshi]

You might want to try "fire lapping".  I had a .40 barrel that was having trouble.  What I did was to lube a couple patches with JB compound and fire them.  The barrel, previously dark, was once again shiny.  It worked for me, at least.

[Hanshi]

Sorry, but I forgot to address the fouling issue.  For hunting I lube with Mink Oil in case I don't get a shot.  But at the range I use Hoppes BP lube.  Using mink oil the bore needs to be swabbed after each shot - actually it's still easily loaded for as many as a half dozen shots - to keep the bore in consistent condition.  No swabbing at all is needed with Hoppes; other liquid lubes including spit work about as well.  However, in addition to Hoppes, I use a tight patch of .022"-.024".  This load is snug but still loads with a wood ramrod safely.  In this case each tight load seated pushes the previous shots fouling down on the powder.  In other words, you never have more than one shots worth of fouling even after 30 & more rounds.

[Uncle Russ]

Yeah it's swamped but having it polished out might be the ticket. So what do you consider a light load? 30grains of fff? Cause that's what I like shootin out of it haha

I think Hanshi has a very viable option in "fire lapping" I have done that very thing many times over the years....in fact, I have done it a couple of times on brand new, out of the box, rifles after examining the bore....amazing effects!
BTW; his thoughts on the fouling issue is solid too!  
 
FWIW; JB Paste has about 3,000f as an abrasion factor, Valve Grinding Compound has about 1,200 / 1,500f as an abrasion factor....Rottenstone, often used on rifle stocks after using a 1,200 sand paper has an abrasion factor of about 2,000f and will work wonders on a barrel with a paste made of Mineral Oil and RS....

Reduced loads......It is my opinion, and my opinion only, that a "light load" may be considered anything less than caliber.
In your case I would suspect a light load to be anything less than 45 gr. FFFg.
For a .50 cal., anything less than 50gr.
My fear of "light loads" is not having the ball exit the barrel...perhaps that fear is unfounded, but it is there.

I know of nothing in writing that really describes a light load.
But it is well recognize what can happen when the ball doesn't exit.

This subject would make a great subject for discussion under another thread, and I would certainly appreciate someone with more knowledge on the subject of "light loads" than myself starting such a thread.

Uncle Russ...