Long Range Colonial Flintlock Rifles

[Ohio Joe]

Long Range Colonial Flintlock Rifles (back during the American Revolution and through the War of 1812) has always been of interested me. There are two good books out there that make mention of this very topic (The Frontier Rifleman by; Richard B. LaCrosse, Jr.) and (British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740 - 1840; by De Witt Bailey, Ph.D.)...

The first book IMHO covers the use and need for long range shooting during the American Revolution,, while the second book covers IMHO the continued use and needed development of long range shooting by the British to answer the American Rifleman's ability to shoot long range (from the first book). And not to forget to mention that what you read in these books are historical documentations from the time and and not fiction.

This now brings me to the point that long range shooting came about (or truly to the public eye) through military use way back then. This post has nothing to do with the ethics of hunting critters, it's about military use / testing / and sport shooting...

I've long been tempted to see if I could duplicate some of the long range shots made during the time period we're looking at. My home Range only goes out to 300 yards, but that's okay because it's the middle of 200 to 400 yards, so any testing I hope to do will be from 200 to 300 yards, and may also be viewed in; 257 Paces (36 inches x 200 yards divided by 28 inch paces = 257 Paces) to 386 Paces (36 inches x 300 yards divided by 28 inch paces = 385.7 Paces)... Because of the unit of measurements used by the military and civilians of those time periods (and this is not to say units of yards were not used as they were for such as Cannon fire) we are still looking at pretty good ranges for the patched round ball of those time periods. In the end if you do any testing you can certainly draw your own conclusion in units of measurement from way back when and whether or not the word "Yard" may have replaced the word "Pace" during these writings of accounts read in either book.

So, when the weather is permitting, my goal this year in 2017 is to see if I can effectively hit anything (man size target) from 200, 250 and 300 yards, with my Dickert (style) Flintlock Rifle using the patched .45 caliber round ball.  I'm sure I'll hit something sooner or later, but it'll be fun seeing what the ratio (shots to hits) will be from all three ranges.

If you got an interest in this and a place to do some testing, give it a try and we'll post our results here in this thread.  

[ross]

I'll plan on following you in this. I know my .54 flinter will perform at 200 whatevers but it's only talk till it's on paper,right? Since I have been trying to shoot schuetzen, I've been wondering about doing it with a patched round ball. Good luck and good shooting to you. Ross

[Bigsmoke]

Joe,
If'n you really want to get serious about that long range stuff, you need to invest in a Wall Gun.  10 bore would be adequate, but  personally, I would prefer a 4 bore.
Supposedly out to I forget how many yards, they used to be able to hit a piece of paper 8 1/2 x 11 pretty consistently.
Besides that, 4 bores are just so darn much fun to shoot.
John

[Ohio Joe]

Ross, when the weather turns decent out my way I'm a gonna go at it before the TMA Silhouette Matches start.

John, it's a long walk back from the next county I'd end up in shooting a 4 bore!

[Ohio Joe]

Well, 200 meters is doable with a .54 - click link below;

[Hawken]

Here's a few shots I made with my Caplock from a measured 200 yards with the .54 caliber:

PRB200tgt by Sharps Man, on Flickr

The higher shot toward 10 o/clock was the first fired when I was learning how to hold the front sight in relation to the rear barrel sight. The others I could cover with my hand. The flinter shoots just as well as the Caplock so I see no reason why it wouldn't do the same thing!

PRB200tgt by Sharps Man, on Flickr

[Lonewolfe20]

Nice shots Hawken
I like this idea
As soon as I get some above freezing  temps I'll set some long range targets up and throw some lead
And see how I'm at shooting those distances
If I don't post back well I must not have done so hot!!!

[Ohio Joe]

Nice shots Hawken
I like this idea
As soon as I get some above freezing  temps I'll set some long range targets up and throw some lead
And see how I'm at shooting those distances
If I don't post back well I must not have done so hot!!!

Now Now,,, you gotta post your outcome.  

I've actually shot 200 yards some years back with my .45 percussion rifle at a 22" tall x 28" wide poster board target, (5 shots offhand, and 5 shots kneeling). Didn't do to bad. If I recall my hold over was about 4 feet and I shaded left about 2 feet 'cause it was windy. My load was 65 grains 3fg pushing a spit-patched .445 round ball.

What I really want to try is a poster board target 16" wide x 28" tall, as I feel (for what I'm looking for) is seeing if with my flintlock I would have some degree of success hitting it at - 200, 250, and 300 yards. I'm not so much worried about the grouping as the percentage of hits on it -vs- shots taken.

[sse]

Little discussion from not long ago, Joe...

http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=18424&hilit=200+offhand&start=25

[Ohio Joe]

Little discussion from not long ago, Joe...

http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=18424&hilit=200+offhand&start=25

I now recall stumbling across that thread, I posted before looking. Could have revived the topic there.

[sse]

Little discussion from not long ago, Joe...

http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=18424&hilit=200+offhand&start=25

I now recall stumbling across that thread, I posted before looking. Could have revived the topic there.

It's all good...

[Mad Irish Jack]

I belong to a reenacting group based in Washington, PA, about 23 miles southwest of Pittsburgh. The Rangers of the Ohio Company is a group based on the Ohio Trade Company. Our site explains us  https://rangersoftheohiocompany.shutterfly.com/
Back in August of '99 (1999) our group was privi to the Greene County Historical Society's archives. We were given copies of writings, documents and the such, that were pertinent to our organization and our background. The Ohio Trade Company was a land spec company, but also hired out its' workers, similar to a temp agency of today's world. Laborers, teamsters, wagoneers, hunters, scouts, etc were hired out to exploring and surveying  groups, military and any one needing a service the company could provide. Also, in the documents, was the list of minimum skill qualifications an individual would need to be hired for specific jobs and tests for the skills. The shooting qualifications for hunters and scouts were spelled out. Proficiency with a rifled barrel gun was hitting a man sized target at 125 paces and at 300 paces. And with a smooth barrel gun, hitting a man sized target at 65 paces and at 125 paces. Shot were to be taken using no supports. We took that to mean off hand non-supported. We didn't have a 300 pace (yard) range but did 250 paces. We shot out of our Commanders' barn. Our target  (we made it for our use, it wasn't documented in the papers) was a Hessian soldier cutout placed on 2 3/4" exterior plywood mounted to 2- 4"X4" posts that were set in ground holes. The top of the soldier was about 6' from the ground. There was a 4" diameter stick on orange target disc placed center on the head and sternum area. These were instant kill shots. We decided for our groups qualifications, we'd earn a short cockade ribbon (4 different colors, 1 each) for qualifying at each range and weapons. 5 consecutive body hits or any 1 hit in the instant kill area was qualified. We had one HELL of a great day and time for 27 members who had no idea of what to expect. Yes, I did qualify at all four distances; it took 7 shots and all were on target.  We had 6 members qualify as a Four Ribbon Shooter. 8 others were single ribbon shooters at various ranges and were to continue qualifying. We only did one other day and no others got all the ribbons. But what a great time. Most of us practiced. I took notes as if I was reloading modern rounds. Listed- weather conditions, grains, patch & ball size, what my sight picture, holdover and any pertinent info. My sights are marked by filed edges on both the front and rear sights. I have our past Sgt. Mjr. Frankfort, looking for a photo of "Heinrich the Hessian".

[Hawken]

Holding over obliterates the target; would drive me nuts trying that! I don't have the rear sight shown here as mine is a standard  Hawken sight with V notch but using one of these sight pictures works for me! And believe me....it doesn't take but a very slight increase of the front sight up into the 'neither regions' to give the ball a good increase in elevation! And if practiced enough you won't have much problem making first round hits!!

Using_the_Peephorn by Sharps Man, on Flickr

 

Look at Figure A at the left. For 200 yards using the .54 Hawken and 100 grs. KIK 2F powder I use a sight picture such that the top of the V notch would be level with the front sight dovetail and I hold the top of the front sight using a 6 o/clock hold! Shots will go to center under a no wind condition or only a slight wind! It'll put a grin on your face when you see the splatter!

[Ohio Joe]

Last Saturday when Hank (Hank in WV) was here at my place, we took a visit over to the "Museum of the Fur Trade" in Chadron, Nebraska,,, where eventually I started looking at the sights on those rifles from the time period. I went and got Hank to take a look with me.

What stood out was how low the front blades were, and how tall the rear sight's were on many of those rifles with an extremely deep "V" notch (I'd guess many with the bottom of the "V" no more then a sixteenth of an inch off the top flat) and how wide they were at the top. Truly an eye opener from what we tend to see on the modern traditional style muzzle loading firearms of today.

Hawken's picture above is very close to what we saw at the museum, except picture a very low (maybe 1/16" front blade, and tall rear colonial and semi-buckhorn tall rear sight with the extreme deep "V" notch mentioned above already.

It has really made me rethink the sights of yesteryear for sure. Even to the point of replicating a set for one of my Dickert style flintlock rifle's with the 42" barrel... And I have no doubt that Hawken's picture above is exactly the same sighting method that was used back then even before the buckhorn rear sight showed up.

Interesting for sure!

[Loyalist Dave]

Ohio Joe,

I'd also be interested if you get the chance, if you fire across a meadow, or even better from one slight rise to another, and paced off the distance.  THEN got a laser and got the proper distance from muzzle to target.  The folks making some of the amazing shots in the AWI often have noted the paces, but unfortunately, we in many cases can't know the margin for error of pacing off the distance over broken ground, since they weren't fighting on nice, level, target ranges. 

LD