New TMA Smoothbore Match (Trial Run)

[Uncle Russ]

.............And I am getting too old and feeble to carry a 20 pound rifle around very long.

I understand your thinking John, I ditched a 32" x 1" .45 Cal that I had pipe dreams about fitting to my Renegade platform for that same reason, it was just too heavy.
It was a knuckle dragger and it made the balance of the rifle such that I simply could not manage it worth a nickel.

Anyway, I do hope Joe gets that smoothie printing good for him, and if I know Joe, he will do just that.
Reading these guys post on their smoothies 'kinda' makes me want to drag out my old .69 again, but that thing has whupped my butt soooo many times I guess I'm just gun-shy....besides it's very happy as a scatter gun, IMO.

Joe, I got to thinking about what I said the other day about "needing more speed", actually my  response came almost automatically...
Don Hastings here in Moses Lake several years back was doing his best to get a handle on his .62 with a PRB.
We shot together pretty often back then and I got to shoot his smoothie several times, as well as him shooting mine. In fact, he shot my own gun better than I could.

His targets, in the beginning, was a lot like what you showed in that picture, pretty much 'circular'.
So were mine when shooting his gun.
 
I ran into Don at the range last Spring,  he had that same gun and it was shooting like a rifle, minus the rear sight.
According to Don it took him all of about three plus years all together to get the gun just right....It was a beautiful .62 IMO that he had bought used from TOTW, made by some name I never recognized can't remember, but he was proud of that name, and always like to tell folks who made it.... I do remember he paid a "pretty penny" for it.
According to him, His grouping secret turned out to be the powder, leaving everything else the same, he started increasing his loads and the load he was using to get those nice groups was,  IIRC, well over 100gr.FFG...I want to say it was more like 110gr but I can't remember...recoil was pretty rough, even for him, but he eventually got what he had been looking for.
His remarks to me about all this, the last time I saw him shooting it, was "Speed Kills".

Uncle Russ...

[amm1851]

As poorly as I shot at the paper earlier this week, I hesitate to give advice, but I think it was me and not the load. I find my Caywood Northwest trade gun in .62 caliber likes about 70 grains of 3f powder with a half wad, ball or shot, other half wad, load column. The wads are lubed with crisco. In my knuckleball analogy, I found when I used to throw them that if I tried to throw them too hard, I lost control, but if I kept my velocity down, I could keep it near the strike zone. At least, near enough to tempt a few hitters. Of course, I never tried it in an actual game as the coach wanted me to throw mostly fastballs and the occasional change-up. But, again, my advice is definitely suspect. 

[Two Steps]

Tell ya what John...I sure don't want to shoot it...but I'd sure like to see your 4 bore 25yd target!!   It would either make things real easy for Joe or make him pull his hair out 

[Maven]

You know, I've used the knuckleball analogy a few times myself , but reasoning by analogy doesn't beat cold hard facts (not saying I have an abundance of these).  Think about it:  A typical knuckleball is thrown at maybe 70 - 80mph and possibly a tad slower.  A nominally .600" RB atop 70gr. FFFg or 80gr. FFg is moving much, much faster, which adds to it's "stability."  Some, as Uncle Russ mentioned, find nirvana with 100gr. - 110gr. FFg with that diameter RB.

[amm1851]

You know, I've used the knuckleball analogy a few times myself , but reasoning by analogy doesn't beat cold hard facts (not saying I have an abundance of these).  Think about it:  A typical knuckleball is thrown at maybe 70 - 80mph and possibly a tad slower.  A nominally .600" RB atop 70gr. FFFg or 80gr. FFg is moving much, much faster, which adds to it's "stability."  Some, as Uncle Russ mentioned, find nirvana with 100gr. - 110gr. FFg with that diameter RB.

I am sure you're right. I just prefer not to waste the powder with excessive charges when I get good accuracy and plenty of punch with my load.  But every gun is a law unto itself,  which is part of what makes muzzleloaders so fascinating.  And some folks enjoy getting pummeled by heavy charges.    (I may be looking at Bigsmoke ) 

[Ohio Joe]

I'd have to pass on a 4 bore, and my ceiling (which I don't plan on getting one) would be a .75 cal Brown Bess, so,,, This 24 gauge will have to do, an I just need to keep with the loading variables 'till I find what works for me.  With this said, I haven't really given this smoothie a good test outing. I've only been out with it 4 times, and I've only shot (I think maybe 25 rounds through it???) and the 4 times out has been with different, powder charges, ball size, patch, wadding,,, and the only consistent thing has been the powder (1fg with 4fg prime).

I do want to mention that this is the first "no rear sight" firearm I've ever shot (not counting my 12 ga Winchester pump during Trap sessions), so I still need to get a feel for this smoothie.

The picture below is what my August Smoothbore target was posted over (in the center) and I'm not disappointed in the three shots showing in the scoring rings on this backer target, nor even the two to the right on the cardboard, as I know that I still have to develop the feel for this smoothie with no rear sight, and along the way do a little testing with the loads. It's all good (no rear sight) black powder fun for me at this point, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love learning new things - and this is what I enjoy most about this smoothie.   

[amm1851]

Well said, Joe! 

[Bigsmoke]

Well, besides inventory, I have really only owned but two smoothies (except a couple of 12 ga. doubles) so I really have not a lot of experience with them.

The first was a most beautiful trade gun, it had a bird's eye maple stock but the most awful lock in the world.  I never did get more than one shot in a row out of it.  Sold that thing most willingly.  But it sure were purty!!

When they first came out, I got a T/C New Englander with both the rifle and the shotgun barrel.  One day at the range I had both barrels with me so I put the shotgun barrel on and loaded up with a .715 ball and shot at a 100 yd target posted at 50 yards.  I was totally amazed at the group I got with it, probably as I recollect, it was about 2 1/2 or 3".  Wish I would have kept that target, it was rather impressive.

John

[Ohio Joe]

I've seen written here several times that those TC smoothies have a track record of being pretty darn accurate. Now I've never owned one of those barrels so I'm only conjecturing,,, if they are full octagon - do you suppose that may have something to do with it in regards to barrel whip? Just throwing this out there, but it seems to me that a full octagon barrel would be more ridged then a octagon to round... Perhaps my thinking is way off on this, but as I said, just throwing it out here as something to think about? 

[Maven]

Yes, they're 1" across the flats (full octagon) and only 26" long so there isn't much barrel whip.  The blocky, but fully adjustable and functional, i.e., easy to see!, sights help as does the nice set trigger.  You've got my Renegade SB target, Joe:  Can you tell it was fired from a SB (smooth rifle, if you want to be technical) and offhand at that?  At 25yd,, it is as almost as accurate as my rifles, especially [when fired] offhand.  One caveat though, T/C Renegades & Hawkens don't fit everyone well as they don't have enough drop in the stock.  I'm thinking a tang sight would cure that problem, but it would probably mean changing the front sight as well.

[Uncle Russ]

Yes, they're 1" across the flats (full octagon) and only 26" long so there isn't much barrel whip.  The blocky, but fully adjustable and functional, i.e., easy to see!, sights help as does the nice set trigger.  You've got my Renegade SB target, Joe:  Can you tell it was fired from a SB (smooth rifle, if you want to be technical) and offhand at that?  At 25yd,, it is as almost as accurate as my rifles, especially [when fired] offhand.  One caveat though, T/C Renegades & Hawkens don't fit everyone well as they don't have enough drop in the stock.  I'm thinking a tang sight would cure that problem, but it would probably mean changing the front sight as well.

Maven, it's kinda funny but I told Joe a short time back, pretty much word for word, everything you just said.
That short "stubby" rear sight is just that....however it is very functional and the hole spacing won't line up for any T/C Replacement., Even though it is ugly as sin it is very functional.

But that ugly is just fine with me.
I love the way the notch in the rear sight fits the front blade on that short barrel....that, IMO, was exceptional engineering by someone who knew what they wanted in the end.

And you're spot-on about the fit!
It's certainly not for everyone, although I do like the fit and style of the Renegade a lot better than the much more popular Hawken.

Uncle Russ...

 

[amm1851]

My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek about every fifth shot. The Lyman Deerstalker and Great Plains stocks fit me a lot better, but best of all are my two custom rifles and my Caywood. None of them have hurt me yet! 

[Maven]

"My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek above every fifth shot."

amm, Did you ever try it with Maxi-Balls?  My cheek and jaw were sore for days!

Russ, Old eyes and Patridge sights work well together.  I find I need a .010" front sight, preferably black, to shoot well.  In fact, I shimmed the front sight of my Isaac Haines rifle to that width and painted it brown to hide the white plastic I used.  The top and edge I look at is flat black though: tried other colors, but didn't like them.

[amm1851]

"My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek above every fifth shot."

amm, Did you ever try it with Maxi-Balls?  My cheek and jaw were sore for days!

Russ, Old eyes and Patridge sights work well together.  I find I need a .010" front sight, preferably black, to shoot well.  In fact, I shimmed the front sight of my Isaac Haines rifle to that width and painted it brown to hide the white plastic I used.  The top and edge I look at is flat black though: tried other colors, but didn't like them.

I did! I hunted elk with maxi balls and 90 grain loads. Pure punishment for me and the stumps I shot!   

[RobD]

what has helped me with hefty 20ga loads of swiss 3f is a lace-on butt pad that i stitched up and used a custom cut 1/2" thick piece of kick killer Akton gel inside the boot.  a 90 grain load with a 325 grain patched ball in that lightweight under 7.5lb smoothie is no recoil issue for my ailing gun shoulder.

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