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Author Topic: Lube...what you use and how you use it???  (Read 2853 times)

Offline Uncle Russ

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Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« on: September 07, 2017, 06:22:25 PM »
Lube is a great topic of conversation!

What's your Favorite Lube???

Making Lube has always made great stories, and I believe the popularity of "My Best Lube" will be with us for a very long time.

Every shooter I have ever met seemed to have his own preference for lube, and that's a good thing,  just as it should be...IMHO.

I have read and tried so many recipes for Lube I wouldn't know where to start in naming even a part of them.
I have also been a supporter of making your own lube, mostly because I know, deep down inside, that everybody "back in the day" didn't run out and buy a new tube, or can, or basket full of new lube every time they needed to replenish their lube....and that my friends, tells me that are few things more Historically Correct than the ol' Spit Patch.

I feel sure that some "sweet oil" was used back in the day, which is little more than Olive Oil today.
I think I'm also safe in saying that a bit of Sperm Oil was also used.

Can anyone name any Lube used that we would call "common" during the early days, other than "sweet Oil" and Spit Patches?

I use Spit Patches a lot.....especially when hunting.
When it comes to wiping, I use what many today call lube, ie Moose Milk, Birddog 6, LeHigh Valley Lube, etc, etc....you guys know what I mean.

I'm getting ready to make some more Lube...this will be real lube that I put on a patch, set a round ball on it, and push it down on the powder.

I am going to show you a picture of the Ingredients;
* Pure Carnuba Wax Flakes.
* Pure Mutton Tallow
* Pure Bees Wax
* Red Candles (to be melted down)

Can any of you "Lube Makers" tell me the colloquial name of this very useful lube??


Carnuba Wax Flakes for those who don't know what it is...a little bit goes a long, long way!


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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 11:46:48 PM »
For hunting I like the TC Bore Butter 1000+, and the Mink Oil... For shooting matches I just spit patch... For X-Stick Rifle at 50 & 100 Yards I use TC Bore Butter 1000+ with 20% more Bees Wax, spit, and I add a newspaper paper patch between my lubed patch and ball.

Spit patching is my favorite way of loading, but I don't want to risk a rust ring using spit on my hunting patch when the ball will be in the bore (at times) up to a week or better.  :shake
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Offline Maven

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 08:24:16 AM »
I guess I have 2 favorites (each for different conditions):  1 liquid and 1 "grease."  The liquid lube/cleaner is 1 Ballistol : 6 water for range and woods walks in warmer weather.  The grease is Stumpy's Moose Snot, which you can make yourself with any vegetable oil* or castor oil as in the original recipe.  With the former, I can shoot all day without wiping the bore of any of my long guns.  With Stumpy's, it is prudent to do so after every ~5 shots to avoid hard starting/seating and holding up other shooters at a woods walk.


*Stumpy told me you can use canola, olive, peanut oil if you can't get castor oil.

Offline RobD

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 09:15:28 AM »
like most of us, i've been messing with patch lubes for decades, too many decades.  the best patch lube for me is more of a "grease" because it's a bullet lube used for alloy BPCR bullets - i've used it for many years - but it sure works awesome for muzzleloader ball patching! 

"gato feo" is it's name, a super lube is it's claim to fame.  so a tip of my hat to the famous "ugly cat".

by weight ...
   1 part mutton tallow (from dixie gun works, online. unlike other tallows, mutton won't go rancid and is good for yer hands to boot)
   1 part paraffin wax (i get gulf brand, online)
1/2 part pure beeswax (can also be bought online if need be)

put all three ingredients in a pot or big can, and stick that pot/can in a big pot of water - heat the water, stir the ingredients 'til well mixed.

i really hot weather i'll increase the beeswax to 3/4 part.

the melted lube is poured into cleaned out milk or juice cartons, cooled, carton peeled off, lube cut into cakes.

the lube is rubbed ONTO both sides of patch strips or separate patches, then the lube is heat gunned INTO the cloth weave.

patch strips are rolled up or cut into separate patch squares.

as a patch lube it works amazingly well, and allows me to fire off dozens of shots all day long with no barrel wiper ever.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

for folks with a lotta time on their hands, here's the entire "gato feo" story as related by it's creator, "Mr Gatofeo" ...


About 1998 I began posting a 19th century bullet lubricant recipe that, when assembled with very specific ingredients, works exceedingly well with black powder. It must be made, as no one offers it commercially.

Within a year of my posting it with ingredients I specified, someone else named the recipe after me: “Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant.”
“Gatofeo” means “ugly cat” in Spanish – and I’ve been grinning like a drunken Cheshire at the honor.

The recipe I posted – when made with the specific ingredients I list below -- equals or exceedss SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold or other commercially made black powder lubricants and is cheaper to make than buying the commercial stuff.

Many have attested to its excellence on other message boards, particularly when soaked into 100% wool felt wads for use in cap and ball revolvers. It’s also a good bullet, patch and shotgun wad lubricant with black powder.

The recipe is:

1 part mutton tallow. I buy mine from Dixie Gun Works, which offers it again after months of unavailability. This is the toughest ingredient to find, but worth the search.  There’s something almost magical about mutton tallow. It doesn’t go rancid and it really keeps black powder fouling to a minimum.

1 part canning paraffin -- the same paraffin used to seal preserves in jars, sold at the grocery store in 1 lb. packages containing four slabs. Gulf is a common brand. Hardware stores with canning sections have it too.

1/2 part real beeswax -- Beware of today's toilet seals, which are not real beeswax but petroleum-based. Get real beeswax, not the synthetic stuff. Though hobby shops may carry small cakes of beeswax, it’s expensive. Your best bet to find it will be at “Mountain Man” Rendezvous, Renaissance Fairs and from local beekeepers.  Check the net for reasonably priced beeswax. I’ve also seen it offered occasionally, at a good price, on Ebay. Can’t find a local beekeeper? Call your county extension office in the government pages; they’ll have a handle on who rides herd on bees in your area.  Toilet seals haven’t been made from real beeswax for at least 10 years, near as I can tell, and perhaps much longer. Check the label, if it doesn’t say “beeswax” it’s almost certainly synthetic and should be avoided.

All parts are by weight, not volume!

I measure out 200/200/100 grams on a kitchen scale, toss the ingredients into a wide mouth Mason jar, and set the jar in 3 or four inches of boiling water for a double-boiler effect to melt it. When thoroughly melted, mix well with a clean stick or disposable chopstick, then allow to cool at room temperature.  (RobD note:  when melted and mixed, i pour the hot lube liquid into a cleaned out milk or juice carton - when solidified, peel back the carton and extract the cake of gato feo).

Do not try to hasten cooling by placing the jar in the refrigerator, or the ingredients may separate.
 
The result is a medium hard lubricant that keeps black powder fouling soft and eliminates or reduces leading. No refrigeration is needed to store this lubricant; just tighten the lid on the jar and place it in a cool, dry place.

I have lubricant I made in 2002 that is still like-new, stored in a tightly sealed jar. Mutton tallow does not go rancid like other natural fats, or at least not as quickly. The mutton tallow I have on hand was purchased in 1998; it’s still good.

The above recipe is not quite invented by me. I found the ratios in a very old factory recipe that listed only “tallow, paraffin and beeswax.”
The Gatofeo No. 1 lubricant calls for very specific ingredients: mutton tallow, canning paraffin and real beeswax. Any deviation from these three specific ingredients results in an inferior lubricant.

Let me restate: Do NOT substitute lard, Crisco, old candles, deer tallow, bacon grease, bear fat, vaseline, synthetic beeswax or anything else – it won’t be as good as these three in combination. I know, because I’ve made small batches of variants and others have tried other ingredients, reporting back that the lubricant worked okay, but not as well.

To lubricate pistol and rifle wads or patches, melt a little lubricant in a tuna or cat food can at a very low temperature on the stove. Add the wads. Two tablespoons of lubricant will easily lubricate 100 .44-caliber wads. Stir the wads until they soak up plenty of lubricant.
Turn off the stove and remove the can. Allow the lubricated wads to cool to room temperature. Snap a plastic pet food top (sold in the pet food aisle) over the can.

Write .44 Greased Wads (or whatever) on the side of the can with a wide marker. Store the can in a cool, dry place. You can easily bring the can to the range in your bag. When you get low on greased wads, simply place the can on the stove at very low heat, add more wads and lubricant, and recharge your stock.

The cans stack on top of each other on the shelf. The plastic lid keeps out dust and critters, and holds in the lubricant’s moisture. It’s a quick, easy, transportable system to make and use the greased felt wads. The same system can be used for unlubricated wads, small parts, balls, conical bullets or whatever you need to organize.

Plastic, pet food lids are inexpensive. Check a Dollar Store or its equivalent for a good price.

Smaller quantities of greased wads are easily carried in Altoid sour candy tins or shoe polish tins. Both types have indents or keys to open the lid easily with greasy fingers, and that’s important. Trying to pry open a greasy lid with greasy fingers, without some lever or side-indent, is maddening.

Hinged tins are not as good, because moisture escapes around the cutout for the hinges. The Altoids sour candy or shoe polish tins seal tightly.

Zip-Loc bags are also good for holding small amounts of wads (greased or dry) for the range but I most like the cans. They seal tighter and resist damage to their contents.

Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant is good for a variety of black powder applications. I also use it for heeled bullets in my Marlin Model 1892 in .32 Long Colt caliber, over small charges of smokeless powder, and in my .44-40 rifle bullets over black powder or smokeless powder.
Give Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant a try. I haven’t found anything better for lubricating the felt wads and Lee conical bullets in my cap and ball revolvers.

(rfd note for muzzleloaders: rub a cake of gato feo into yer patch material on both sides, then heat gun the lube into the weave on both sides, roll up the strips or cut into squares, a Superior lead ball patch lube that's also excellent for swabbing the bore when afield if need be, too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess I didn't mention an aspect of canning paraffin in this post. Truth is, I've been writing about the wonders of what is now called Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant for about eight or nine years, and I've written various versions of the same post. I guess I left out the explanation concerning canning paraffin.

Yes, canning paraffin is a petroleum product, but it's also pure paraffin. There are no scents, unrelated oils, glitter, etc. such as are found in decorative or scented candles. It's pure, and that' why I specify it.
When I first began using canning paraffin, I too wondered why it didn't create the tarry fouling when used with black powder, as other petroleum products do. Fact is, I posed this question in various message boards years ago.
A chemist provided what seems a plausible answer: Canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons found in other petroleum products. Apaprently, these hydrocarbons are the offender.

I'm no chemist, and I don't have access to a lab that could test for the presence of hydrocarbons, so I remain uncertain if what he said is true, opinion or S.W.A.G.
All I know is that canning paraffin -- the same translucent stuff that is melted and poured into the open mouths of preserve jars, does not create the hard, tarry fouling I typically find with other petroleum products (automotive grease, transmission fluid, rifle grease, lithium grease, etc.).
The natural greases (animal and vegetable in origin) also dissolve more easily in soapy water during cleaning. Petroleum grease resists dissolving and tends to float around in the water as tiny clumps, often sticking to the steel surfaces of guns and requiring additional cleaning.

Canning paraffin works. I can't explain it. The original 19th century factory recipe called for "paraffin" and that was the only description. There are different types of paraffin, but I chose canning paraffin for its purity and availability. Luckily, it worked just fine and I didn't have to search for a more esoteric paraffin.
Perhaps it lacks the hydrocarbons that are claimed to be the culprit. Perhaps not. But I do know that canning paraffin is the best paraffin I've found and it doesn't create a hard, tarry fouling when used with black powder.
I've made other variations of Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant with substited ingredients, including old candles, and the resulting lubricant is not as good.
It's kinda like the ghost I witnessed years ago: I saw it. I have no doubts. But I can't explain it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The old recipe I found only listed:
Tallow
Paraffin
Beeswax

No specifics beyond these were given.

The recipe was originally used by factories for bullets that were outside lubricated, as found on heeled bullets. The only heeled bullets loaded by factories today are the .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle, and the .32 Short Colt (occasionally loaded by Winchester).
I used the above recipe and assembled it with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax because it's what I had on hand when I found the old recipe.

I have a Marlin Model 1892 rifle that uses heeled bullets, which I cast myself. After using the lubricant with .32 Long Colt reloads, I decided to try it with felt wads for my cap and ball revolvers, and patches for my CVA Mountain Rifle in .50 caliber.
Doing so, I was impressed with the old recipe assembled with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax. I've also used it with black powder loads and lead bullets in my .44-40 and .45-70 rifles, as well as .45 Long Colt revolver.
I used very specific ingredients, but didn't change the ratio of 10/10/5 parts.


I first posted the recipe -- with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax -- about 1999 or 2000 on many message boards. Shortly after posting it, someone dubbed it "Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant" and the name stuck.

Did the old factory recipe specify liquid or solid paraffin? I don't know. I suspect it was solid, because the lubricant must be sticky and solid, to stick to the bare, smooth lead of an outside-lubricated bullet not protected by the case. Only a very small portion of the bullet is inside the case -- the heel -- the rest of it is exposed to grit and lubricant wear-off while carried in pockets and game bags.

Modern .22 rimfire lubricant that covers the bullet is much harder and tenacious than the old factory recipe I found.
I suspect it's entirely wax of some type, with no grease or beeswax.

From what I've observed -- tiny teats on the point of the lead .22 bullet -- it's applied by dipping the completed cartridge upside down in melted wax up to where the bullet meets the brass case. Dipping in melted lubricant was the old method and is evidently still used today.

I know of liquid paraffin used for lamp fuel, but don't believe I've ever seen it. Perhaps I simply haven't recognized it.

Interestingly, one muzzleloading outfitter's site claims:
WARNING: Paraffin and other petroleum products can cause "Cook offs". It is neither fun nor healthy to have your musket unexpectedly fire while you are loading.

This is the first warning of this type I've seen, and I've been using black powder for nearly 40 years. I don't understand how a "cook-off" can be generated by paraffin. Does he mean it creates longer-lasting embers?
The age-old definition of "cook-off" means that the gun metal becomes so hot that the powder is ignited by this heat. This is a common problem in machine guns, and perhaps semi-autos fired quickly with a great deal of ammo, but in a black powder rifle?
The owner of the site clearly has a great deal of experience in black powder shooting, but i have to doubt this assertion. I've yet to hear of anyone experiencing unexpected ignition by using petroleum products. I and others have learned that most petroleum products, when used with black powder, create a hard, tarry fouling. Of this there is little doubt.

Canning paraffin lacks this characteristic. A chemist wrote me long ago that canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons that petroleum greases and oils contain. I don't know about this; I'm not a chemist, petroleum engineer or geologist. However, I DO know that I don't experience the hard, tarry fouling when using canning paraffin.
Whatever it lacks or possesses, it's clearly different from other petroleum products.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The source of Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant recipe comes from a 1943 American Rifleman magazine article on bullet lubrication. The recipe was listed as a factory lubricant for outside-lubricated bullets. That recipe was:

10 pounds Tallow
10 pounds Paraffin
5 pounds Beeswax

I'd had very good experience with mutton tallow, so I used that. I wanted the purest paraffin I could find. Candles often have scents and "dripless" ingredients added, so I used canning paraffin. I ensured that I used real beeswax, not the phony petroleum product used for toilet seals the past 15 or more years.
In short, I took pains to use the finest ingredients I could find, based on their purity or my experience with them.
The result was a lubricant that delighted me with its usefulness for bullets, patches and wads (revolver and shotgun) in black powder and smokeless firearms, economy and effectiveness.
The 1943 article notes that the recipes are very old factory concoctions. Considering that outside lubricated bullets have been produced by factories since the 1850s, this recipe could very well go back that far.
Hence, my statement that the Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant recipe dates to the 19th century.

Paraffin vs. petroleum product.
I've tried numerous petroleum products with black powder since my first cap and ball revolver in 1970. None of them I've found very good. Far better has been natural oils and greases based on animals or plants.
Yet, canning paraffin is an exception. At least when blended with mutton tallow and beeswax, as found in the GF No. 1 recipe.
A chemist years ago told me (online) that canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons that other petroleum products contain.
I don't know about that, but I do know that canning paraffin does not promote the hard, tar-like fouling that other petroleum products do, when used with black powder.

I use Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant (named by someone else years ago, not me) for a variety of black powder applications.
It's very similar to commercially sold SPG Lubricant, but much cheaper because it's only available as a homemade product. I can tell no difference in performance between the two.
Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant is also good for lubricating bullets at 1,200 feet per second, or less. I use it in .38 Special and mid-power .357 Magnum loads with the same 158 gr. bullet.

Brewng a batch of Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant is a bit of a pain, because it requires finding very specific ingredients, but a little goes a long way and it's ultimately worth it.

Offline Uncle Russ

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 09:28:46 AM »
Rob, thanks for that VERY informative post!

 :hairy

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Offline Hanshi

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 05:49:01 PM »
I find that TOW mink oil is all I need for hunting or even at the range.  I also really like Hoppes BP Lube and have used a lot of it.  I patch with either .020" mattress ticking or .025" denim.  Either allows all day shooting without having to wipe the bore.  Tight loads permit this.
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Online rollingb

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 06:00:39 PM »
I find that TOW mink oil is all I need for hunting or even at the range.  I also really like Hoppes BP Lube and have used a lot of it.  I patch with either .020" mattress ticking or .025" denim.  Either allows all day shooting without having to wipe the bore.  Tight loads permit this.
I agree,.... rather than make up more of my beeswax and bear oil patch lube, I tried TOTW's Mink Oil lube and really like it.
In fact that's all I use now with loads that are liable to be left in my rifles for extended periods of time,.... for range shooting, I still prefer "spit" for lube 'cause it has always worked so well for me.  :bl th up
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Offline RobD

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 06:10:11 PM »
the thing about using a kinda hard greased patch (gato feo) is that it's ready to go - no muss, no fuss, just use it within a ball board, or precut patch, or as a strip to be muzzle cut.  no messy liquid lube to carry around in a bottle or a soft greasy lube in a container or patch box.  i like things to be as effectively simple as possible, with the least amount of support gear and process steps.   ;)

Offline amm1851

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 06:10:29 PM »
Mink oil from Track works for me. :bl th up
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Online dmarsh

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 08:47:53 AM »
Me too.  Track of the Wolf mink oil for hunting and spit at the range. :hairy

Dave
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Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 10:38:46 PM »
I've been thinking of making up some of the Gaofeo lube if I can find a source of mutton tallow, ever since I found the recipe a while back on my hard drive.  But, I've been using SnoSeal boot dressing, melted into strips of pillow ticking for quite a while now whenever I don't just lick the patching before loading.  the patching strips are rolled up and stay in an Altoids tin which spent a little time inside our wood stove one winter.  Cut the patches at the muzzle, so no precut patches here!

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Offline RobD

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 08:03:52 AM »

Offline Maven

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 09:18:06 AM »
Not to beat this to death, but I use Stumpy's Moose Snot as a patch lube when I go to a woods walk,* mostly because it works very well and also because I don't have a proper container for wet patches.  E.g., I used that lube on Sunday's woods walk and didn't need to swab the bore for the entire day:  17 shots; maybe 60% humidity.  I also lent some [lubed] patches to a friend who ran out of his.  He told me he liked them so much that he wanted the recipe:  Google it + it's easy to make.

Btw, I apply the lube with my fingers to both sides of the patch strip, then roll it up and nuke it just enough to evenly distribute the lube.


*Did OK, but missed too many easy shots.  It wasn't the gun, lube, etc, but the shooter! :Doh!

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 12:18:19 PM »
For range shooting/woods walks, etc I either use spit or Ol' Thunder Patch Lube and Bore Solvent.  In all too many years of black powder shooting, the Ol' Thunder is the best I have found.  Get it from Fletcher, you will be glad you did.
For hunting, I use an Ox Yoke (or Blue and Gray) pre-lubed shotgun over powder cushion wad under an Ox Yoke pre-lubed patched round ball.  No cleaning between shots seems to be needed as the cushion wad wipes the bore on the way down.
Works for me, YMMV.
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Offline Uncle Russ

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Re: Lube...what you use and how you use it???
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 01:46:20 PM »
Not to beat this to death, but I use Stumpy's Moose Snot as a patch lube when I go to a woods walk,* mostly because it works very well and also because I don't have a proper container for wet patches.  E.g., I used that lube on Sunday's woods walk and didn't need to swab the bore for the entire day:  17 shots; maybe 60% humidity.  I also lent some [lubed] patches to a friend who ran out of his.  He told me he liked them so much that he wanted the recipe:  Google it + it's easy to make.

Btw, I apply the lube with my fingers to both sides of the patch strip, then roll it up and nuke it just enough to evenly distribute the lube.


*Did OK, but missed too many easy shots.  It wasn't the gun, lube, etc, but the shooter! :Doh!

I remember "Stumpkiller", very well from years ago on another forum.
Stumpy was a Member of the TMA for a short while back in the early days.
I also remember him announcing his lube, and the reaction he got after others tried it.

"Stumpy" was one of the best, if not the very best, Forum Moderator I've ever run across in my time of owning and using a computer on bb type forums, which goes back to Windows 5 in 1995.
Stumpy had the skills to ask questions and promote conversation on any subject, and he always manage to do it without any condescending or belittling remarks ever showing their ugly face.
 
Same with "Musketman", his cohort of the times, the two of them made a great team and were true promoters of the sport, giving Traditional Muzzleloading the attention it had been needing for a long time.
Both great people!

jus'sayin......

Uncle Russ...



 
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