Had Not Seen This Before

[Ohio Joe]

This afternoon I installed a new thicker Brass front sight on a CVA Mnt Rifle (.50 cal) a friend of mine picked up at an Auction. The rifle is in pretty darn good shape (I didn't ask him what he paid for it), but anyway the front sight that was on it was just to thin for him to pick up a good sight picture, so after checking to make sure the rifle was not loaded, I fixed him up with a thicker one front Brass blade sight. I've done this for him before.

Anyway,,, after I was done I thought the rifle looked like it could use a little once over cleaning so I took care of that. Then I noticed the inside cup of the hammer looked rather black so I wet a Q-tip and tried cleaning it out. Well it just wouldn't clean out very well, so I took a closer look and there was a spent cap formed inside that cup so I dug it out with a small screw driver and hit the cup again with a wet Q-tip, and by golly there was a second spent cap that was under that first one I took out,,, so again I took it out with a small screw driver,,, and once again I took a wet Q-tip and swabbed around in that hammer cup..... By golly I found a third spent cap in there, so I repeated the process and didn't find anymore after that.

Now there's no "v" cut in the face of that hammer cup, and I have seen two spent caps pile up in this type of hammer, but three (what I would term perfectly formed spent caps one after the other in the hammer cup, well that was a first for me.

When he picks up his rifle I'll see if he wants me to cut a small "v" in the face of that hammer so those caps will split and you can flick out the spent cap, and I expect he'll have me do that.

Like I said, I've seen two caps stuck in a hammer cup, but never three. Well at least not until this afternoon.

[Hank in WV]

Like you, I've seen two, but not three.

[PetahW]

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3rd time's the charm...... 

 
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[Ohio Joe]

The nipple on this rifle appears to be one of those "white lightning" type nipples with a side vent hole at the top of the cone where the cap sets. Kind'a wonder if the escaping gasses  through that little hole didn't help to seat/form those caps into that hammer cup?

Not the greatest picture, and hard to see the small size of the hammer cup with no "v" cut into the face of it to help the caps separate and fall out, but you get the idea.

[Two Steps]

Nope, don't think I've ever seen three caps stuck in the hammer.  As an aside, I've had misfires due to one cap still in the hammer cup....or at least I had a cap that wouldn't go off until I popped a spent cap out of the hammer cup. 

[Ohio Joe]

Nope, don't think I've ever seen three caps stuck in the hammer.  As an aside, I've had misfires due to one cap still in the hammer cup....or at least I had a cap that wouldn't go off until I popped a spent cap out of the hammer cup.

Same here, Al... It baffles me...

[Uncle Russ]

Nope, don't think I've ever seen three caps stuck in the hammer.  As an aside, I've had misfires due to one cap still in the hammer cup....or at least I had a cap that wouldn't go off until I popped a spent cap out of the hammer cup.

Yep, it's happened enough to me that checking the hammer cup comes instinctively without even thinking about it.

I think it might have been Joe that told us once, a long time ago, that he believed those "White Lightening" nipples may very well cause problems that was many times unheard of in a regular nipple of the past.

I'm quite certain the "V" notch in the hammer helps in the removal of spent caps, but does it do anything to prevent it from happening?
Can it even be prevented?

The more this subject pops up, and the more I ponder all this, the more I think ol' Joe may have well been on to something way back when.
Problem is....you, or I,  can't just re-create this little phenomena on demand, and it always seems to happen at the most inappropriate and unsuspecting of  times....even after that casual inspection of the hammer cup, because sometimes they will form themselves so perfectly to that cup, that without actual 'digging' with a pointed object they are hard to even see. 

Uncle Russ...

[Ohio Joe]

I'm quite certain the "V" notch in the hammer helps in the removal of spent caps, but does it do anything to prevent it from happening?
Can it even be prevented?

Russ, I think a person would have to do a series of tests in all climate weather to find out, as well as getting their hands on as many brands of percussion caps made over the last 190+ years to even have a chance at solving this mystery.

I certainly agree that the "V" notch does indeed help with the removal of the spent cap, and I also believe it helps to deform the cap to a degree as to where this multi stacking of caps "might" or "maybe" the idea of it, is to prevent multi "spent cap" stacking? I don't know and certainly would never say for certain, as I know I too have experienced spent cap stacking even in "V" notched hammers at times.

I think we need to look at caps themselves and whether they are good strong hot caps, medium power caps, or cheap low power caps? Then we have to start thinking of the cap material itself? We can't even rule out gas pressures from a one hole Nipple -vs- a three hole Hot Shot Nipple,,, nor can we rule out Nipple hole burn out.

Just to many variables to probably ever come up with an answer on this spent cap stacking,,, but we do know that caps on Revolver Nipples pretty much break apart and many times fall off their Nipple when the Chamber is discharged - and we all know that is because they are not inside a cupped hammer when they go off. And of course a Revolver Nipple cap's has way less distance to travel with its jet of flame to the charge.

So it probably all comes back to the "cupped hammer" design, and I bet "spent cap stacking" has been with us since the design of the Percussion cap and the Locks for them. 

[Uncle Russ]

Good post, Joe
Good, sound, reasoning is hard to argue with, and a good, sound 'scientific' study would do little more than tell us what we already know....it happens all the time, but you can't make it happen on purpose.

 

Uncle Russ...

[Winter Hawk]

Another good reason to stick with flintlocks!  Those cap thingies will become a thing of the past, I tell you...

~WH~

[Ohio Joe]

Sound wisdom, WH!  Why didn't I think of that!   

[Rocklock]

Another good reason to stick with flintlocks!  Those cap thingies will become a thing of the past, I tell you...

~WH~

Aye, right you are, Cap’n.

[ross]

them suppository guns are gonna fade away too!