touch hole liner woes

[RobD]

so i have this .62 smoothbore that i had commissioned jackie brown to build for me in the fall of 2016 that arrived at me in the winter of 2017.  a simple farmer's gun, nothing at all fancy.  i received it in-the-white and stained and clear coated the stock.  since i had to pull the barrel to do the finishing work, i also pulled the breech plug out and sure enuf, it wasn't anti-seize lubed as i had asked for.  looking inside was what appeared to be a burr from drilling and tapping for the flush liner (which i asked to be a chambers white lightning but was a knock-off instead).  i used a stone bit on a dremel to smooth down that "burr" but didn't get it flush.  the gun shot well, however, and is very pleasing to hold and shoot, with a very crisp trigger.





running down a patched jag would always catch on that "burr".  yesterday i decided to fix it once and for all, pulled the barrel and breech plug, and after careful examination i realized it wasn't a burr, it was the touch hole liner protruding into the chamber.  a big no-no.  i needed to pull the liner and file it down, but it's a flush liner with no slot and no hex key socket.  i oil up the liner and attack it with an EZ-out ... the liner starts to move and ever so slightly raises up - good.  then the EZ-out snaps off flush to the liner.  cr@p.  i really never liked or trusted EZ-outs and i just *knew* it was a mistake.

spoke to my barrel smith in PA, bobby hoyt, and he said i've got real problem due to the hardness of that busted screw - which i knew, but was hoping bobby could throw me a hail mary pass that i could catch.  we talked over several possible remedies but all were guesses.

i decided to drill a pair of 3/32" holes on either side of the busted screw and drop in some cut 3/32" music wire and use the leverage of a clamped vise grips to wiggle the sucker out.  didn't work.  what next? 

i put a 1" carbide wheel in the dremel and ran it against the side of  a grinding wheel that dropped its diameter to 3/8".  i used the wheel to cut a slot between the edges of the holes i had drilled, wedged in a screwdriver and twisted counter-clockwise with a bit of downward pressure to keep the blade in the slot.   it worked.  free at last.  amen.  a few 1/4x28 touch hole liners on order.

 

[Fyrstyk]

you are one lucky son of a gun.  I can just imagine the how this would have turned out for me, and it is not good.  Glad you were able to get it out.  Make sure when you get your new White Lightning touch hole liner that you measure the barrel wall depth(thickness?) and file the liner before installation.

[RobD]

the mistake i made was not removing that liner and nikal lubing it the day it arrived, rather than let it languish with NO lube and a lot of black powder residue that was in those liner threads.

nope, no WL liner for me, i've had good use with both slot and allen key hole liners.

[Maven]

What an ordeal, Rob!  Glad you were able to fix Mr. Brown's hamhandedness!

[Ohio Joe]

Sorry to hear of the problems with that smoothie, Rob. Whoever installed that liner, well that's a rookie mistake for sure of the person not checking it not only by removing the breech plug for a visual, but also running some tight patches down to make sure there would be no snagging the patch. Disappointing for sure. Glad you got it fixed. 

[Winter Hawk]

A number of years ago, on another forum, Jackie Brown was discussed.  Some were impressed with his work, but others seemed to feel he was cutting corners.  The man himself is, I understand, nice enough and many of his guns are well made but others not so good.  Considering the price for his pieces it is a shame to hear of your problems!

~Kees~

[RobD]

ah yes, mr. jackie brown, gunmaker of renown.  there is a reason his gun offerings are so cheap, and i knew that going into the smoothbore commission i entered with him.  i also let him know i'd be critiquing his work in public forums, as an incentive that hopefully this smoothbore would at least be ok, not stellar.  i knew his track record and i took a gamble.  there are more than a few things about the gun that were just plain wrong - and i let him know that.  as of now, once the new liner goes in, all the issues will be rectified.  it is a good gun, good in the hands, good shooter.  but if you didn't have the tools and ability to perform "guerilla gunsmithing" you would not be a happy camper with this smoothbore, and probably any other gun that jackie literally blows out for sale.
 

[Ironhand]

My Jackie Brown trade gun is my favorite flinter but it did have issues when I got it. Mostly burrs on screw holes. I sent it back and he fixed it, to his credit he also installed a set of his sling attachments for free. I have never had a gun that handles so well.

IronHand

[RobD]

My Jackie Brown trade gun is my favorite flinter but it did have issues when I got it. Mostly burrs on screw holes. I sent it back and he fixed it, to his credit he also installed a set of his sling attachments for free. I have never had a gun that handles so well.

IronHand

i agree on with ya, when it comes to the smoothbore he made for me.  it's light, great in the hands, and points fast.  there were a LOT of issues with his "workmanship" and i don't mean non-functional concerns.  i have a full article that describes my jackie brown experience, and this is after telling him point blank specifically what i want commissioned, what parts to use, what i expect the gun should be, and that i'm going to publicly review the gun he makes for me.  i could have gotten better results from talking to a wall, for the most part.  he just does what he wants to do.

dealing with mr. brown is a total cr@pshoot, and so do beware.  there are legions of folks who've had jackie brown gun issues, and not just buggered screw holes. 

that he CAN make a very good to great trad muzzleloader is a fact.  but that one outta ten might not be what yer gonna get. 

[Ohio Joe]

Here is a quote from Jackie Brown himself back in 2007 - about dealing with gun builders... You all can draw your own conclusion's... Mine are simple "practice what ya preach" if you'r a builder and giving out this advise. 

http://www.historicaltrekking.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=439

[RobD]

every word that jackie typed in his "announcement" about how to deal with gun makers was and is a complete lie as it applies to HIM.  he has, and continues to violate everything righteous he says he stands for. 

jackie brown lies constantly about how he does business, what he can do for you, how long it will take to get the job done, and what the completed gun will be when you eventually get it.  just lie after lie after lie.  some of his lies are almost laughable, particular the seemingly constant catastrophic family diseases that prevent him from working on YOUR gun, while he's working on someone else's gun that he promised that person five months ago.

this is not slander.  all of this happened to me, too, in my deal with jackie brown.  he is an out and out liar and scoundrel.  he chooses to be what he is, just as he could choose to do the right thing by all, and make wonderful guns. 

that's the truly sad part of everything about jackie brown - IF and WHEN he chooses, which is rarely, he can make as good a gun as anyone.  what a waste of a man and his talent.  he's just out to make as easy a buck as possible, at his client's expense.

[Ohio Joe]

There's been to many horror stories about what he's turning out. It's a darn shame. 

[amm1851]

Null.

[RobD]

new 1/4x28 liners arrived from TOTW ... wow, that was Fast! 

as expected, the liners were far too long, so i took a piece of 3/32" mild steel and d/t'd it for 1/4x28, then threaded in a liner, vised it and cut it down with a dremel carbide wheel.  filed it up a tad and was surprised to see such a good fit on the first try.  nikaled it in, then vised the barrel again and spun in the nikal'd breech plug.  put the gun together and i think she's gonna be good to go ... at last. 

trivia kudos to anyone who knows what is that piece of 3/32" steel plate's original intended use .... 

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[RobD]

it ain't fixed by a longshot, just a bandaid job for now.  the countersink for the touch hole liner is mighty deep and leaves sparse threads.  i'm kinda leery of that. 

i talked it all over with jim chambers the other night. the game plan is to first drill and tap for a 5/16"x32 WL liner and see how she goes. if need be, i'll open that up to 3/8"x32 and file down any of the liner past the flat. at this point, i'll take function over form any day. i suspect i may be be happier with the 3/8" liner.