Hosting a traditional firearms event done "old school".

[RobD]

i've been tasked with hosting a local club fun match - so what's "done old school" mean?

hmmm, good question. 

imho, there are vastly different ways of loading up an 18th/19th century muzzleloader. 

from the perspective of actually living in that era, when using a firearm for personal protection or warfare, what was more important - speed of loading and consistency of ignition, or extracting the most consistent accuracy ... or some measure of both?

i think when personal protection and warfare are the need for a firearm's use, that begs speed and reliability over accuracy.  doesn't mean that accuracy isn't considered, just that it's lesser than the former need for consistent firepower.

this event must take into account most any manner of trad muzzy, rifle or smoothbore, flint or cap ignition, patched balls only.
 
with that in mind, how does one construct a trad muzzy fun shoot that stresses the need for that speed and reliability?  what'cha think?

[Bigsmoke]

Rob,
Seems to me that if one is going for rapidity in loading, a paper cartridge match should be considered.  Although that is mainly a military type thing, it could also blend over into civilian life as well.  I am seeing this as a metallic silhouette match with maybe a 2 minute time limit.  Shoot as many shots as you can within that time, and score would be a total of hits and times.  Start loaded, shoot first shot at a paper target for a tie breaker, then continue on with the match.  For safety sake, instead of priming out of the paper cartridge, shooters would prime out of the horn.  I would guess that one could also use a loading block and premeasured charges as well.
Just one idea.  Whatever, have fun and stay safe.
John
 

[RobD]

thanx for your input, john.  i will add that this event must take into account most any manner of trad muzzy, rifle or smoothbore, flint or cap ignition.  patched balls only.

[prairie dog]

"Done old school"

Load from the shooting bag, no loading benches.  X target, closest to center wins.
Or a trail walk with metallic targets.

If you want a speed event, something like this:
Post a typical bull's eye target.  Maybe a pistol bull or Hessian body silhouette.   
Let the shooters load and fire as many shots as they can within a chosen time limit.  Say 2 or 3 minutes.  Score all hits on the target and high score wins.

 

[rollingb]

"Traditional"?,.... "Old School"?,.... shooting match.

Maybe something similar to this. 

Rifle shooting in the North American English colonies was a way of life both on the frontier, as it progressed westward, and in the farming settlements of the Atlantic seaboard, where the rifle was used for protection and hunting as well as for target shooting.

The flintlock Kentucky rifle, produced from about 1750 by American gunsmiths from Germany and Switzerland, provided great accuracy to 180 metres (200 yards), then a long range. Virtually every village and settlement had a shooting match on weekends and holidays, often attracting a hundred or more marksmen. A common target was a piece of board, blackened in the smoke of a fire or charred, on which an X was slashed with a knife, the intersection marking the centre. Shooting at a wooden figure of a bird atop a pole, as crossbowmen had in the Middle Ages, was also popular. Live turkey shooting—the bird tethered behind a box or rock so that only the neck and head showed—was a standard event.

By 1830 shooting clubs were formed both in the heavily populated East and in towns and cities of the Midwest. Target shooting from a bench or rest was established before 1840. In the 1850s a Vermont benchrest shooting club was formed, the National Rifle Club, but regional rather than nationwide, and its members won a high reputation for accuracy with muzzle-loading rifles. In 1871 the National Rifle Association was founded by National Guard officers to improve marksmanship.

[RobD]

thanx steve and rondo.

this event must force shooters to consider loading and shooting speed over accuracy.

think of it kinda thisaway; here are two typical made up scenarios ...

the year is 1767 and yer family is headed out as part of three family wagon train headed west across the "proclamation line of 1763" from central PA to settle in the nor'west territories and yer ambushed by a mix of iroquois and shawnee natives, where load quick and shoot fast is the name of the game to defend and protect. 

the year is 1833 and yer family is headed out as part of twelve family wagon train headed west out of st. louis to settle in the lands west of the mississippi and yer ambushed by otoe natives, where load quick and shoot fast is the name of the game to defend and protect.

[Ohio Joe]

First thing that came to mind when "old school" was mentioned was the "over the log" shoot at a board with an X burned into it (I expect paper would do just fine) and these were normally shot "your choice" (40 yards offhand or 60 yards over the log) and in all respects I'd keep the specialty "chunk guns" out of this match and the muzzle loader they use would have to be what they would normally carry in the woods on a hunt  - be it large or small game - load from the horn and bag only. This could be one part of the match to go along with some other ideas.

[Ohio Joe]

Disregard my post above. I forgot you're looking for speed and accuracy. 

[rollingb]

thanx steve and rondo.

this event must force shooters to consider loading and shooting speed over accuracy.

think of it kinda thisaway; here are two typical made up scenarios ...

the year is 1767 and yer family is headed out as part of three family wagon train headed west across the "proclamation line of 1763" from central PA to settle in the nor'west territories and yer ambushed by a mix of iroquois and shawnee natives, where load quick and shoot fast is the name of the game to defend and protect. 

the year is 1833 and yer family is headed out as part of twelve family wagon train headed west out of st. louis to settle in the lands west of the mississippi and yer ambushed by otoe natives, where load quick and shoot fast is the name of the game to defend and protect.

OK,.... how about everyone has a 30-40 yard, 12" circle (paper plate?), to shoot at for 10 minutes, only holes inside the circle count for score?
You could even mix things up a bit, with each shooter also having the option of shooting at a smaller 6" circle (paper pie-plate?) at 20 yards with less points per-hole in the circle. 


OR,.... maybe something like our old "stake shoot" where each shooter has a 1"X2" stack driven into the ground at 25 yards to shoot at,... first shooter to cut their stake completely into wins 1st. place, second shooter to cut his/her stack into wins 2nd. place,... and so on.
I've always enjoyed this particular type of shoot   , and it is definitely ALL ABOUT "speed and accuracy".
You can even go with wider stakes if you want the shoot to last longer.   

NOTE:.... all loading is done "from the pouch".

[RobD]

yep, since speed is the prerequisite, that means a timed event.   and all offhand out of the pouch.  patched balls.  should ball boards be allowed?  hmm.

i like that pie plate thing, rondo!  it'd be easier and less complicated than a seneca run, just not as near-true-to-life thrilling    a pie plate at 30 yards, 10 minutes of shooting, total number of holes in the plate wins.  perhaps a thin 4" center ring to use for tie breakers.  this also means that the firing line can accommodate 6 shooters at a time for a fast event that'd be over in an hour or less.

wonder what i can do to add in a mini 2 or 3 target seneca run with steel plates?

[Ohio Joe]

Rob, wonder if you could do a Fort type shoot similar to the one in that Denny Ducet video? Something like;

3 gong targets different yardages / one shot at each target / 1 Minute to fire your 3 shots (close target 1 point - middle target 2 points - far target 3 points) run everyone through 3 or 4 times, have them start (your choice; with or without their muzzleloader loaded...

I think I'd allow the ball boards but no paper charges...

Will you allow them to blow down the barrel between shots? I personally would.

[rollingb]

yep, since speed is the prerequisite, that means a timed event.   and all offhand out of the pouch.  patched balls.  should ball boards be allowed?  hmm.

i like that pie plate thing, rondo!  it'd be easier and less complicated than a seneca run, just not as near-true-to-life thrilling    a pie plate at 30 yards, 10 minutes of shooting, total number of holes in the plate wins.  perhaps a thin 4" center ring to use for tie breakers.  this also means that the firing line can accommodate 6 shooters at a time for a fast event that'd be over in an hour or less.

wonder what i can do to add in a mini 2 or 3 target seneca run with steel plates?

Quite honestly I've never used a ball-board, and never felt at a disadvantage when competing against those that do (during any timed-event). YMMV 

The ol'X target works great as a simple "tie-breaker",.... 1 shot - closest to the center of the "X" - breaks the tie. 

The "stake shoot" (already mentioned) can accommodate as many shooters as you have stakes. We used 1"x2" stakes, about 24" long driven about half-way into the ground. If there's the chance the ground in your area is "frozen", you'll also have to take that into consideration. 

Also,... the "stake shoot" isn't an actual timed-event (per se), as shooters have to shoot until their individual stake is cut completely in two. The time length involved with this type of shoot depends on how many "places" (prizes) are pre-determined for the shoot. We always had 3 different valued prizes for 1st., 2nd., and 3rd. places. but could be increased if you have lots of shooters.

One of the nice things about this type of shoot, is the lack of actually having to "score" targets,.... when a shooter cuts his stake in two, he simply yells out and his name is written down.

Stake shoots can be shot with shooters putting money in a hat, then paid out to the top shooters in proportion to how they scored.

Shooting/muzzleloading clubs have used stake shoots with a portion of the "proceeds" going to the top 3 shooters (in proportion to how they scored),.... and a portion of the money going to the club,.... or used as compensation to whoever provided/made the wooden stakes. 

[rollingb]

Rob, wonder if you could do a Fort type shoot similar to the one in that Denny Ducet video? Something like;

3 gong targets different yardages / one shot at each target / 1 Minute to fire your 3 shots (close target 1 point - middle target 2 points - far target 3 points) run everyone through 3 or 4 times, have them start (your choice; with or without their muzzleloader loaded...

I think I'd allow the ball boards but no paper charges...

Will you allow them to blow down the barrel between shots? I personally would.

Joe,.... I agree 100% ,..... there is no way I'd compete in any type of "speed shooting" without being allowed to blow down the barrel. 

[Riley/MN]

For our biathlons we allow loading blocks but not "speedloaders" That being said, if you are shooting a musket (replicas of course acceptable) that would've originally been loaded from paper cartridges, we do allow you to carry a box of cartridges. That has not proved to be any advantage to loading from the bag from what I have seen....

[RobD]

rondo, i like yer idea of an "X" rather than a circle in the pie plate middle.

joe, that sounds good for a 3 gong "seneca run" to add to the pie plate shootin'.

riley, i doubt any of the club members use paper cartouches, but i'll check to be sure.  cartouches would surely speed up a smoothbore load process.

i know that a loading block definitely adds great speed to the load process, at least it does for me, but not everyone in the club uses them.  not sure what to do about that.

while i see no problem with direct mouth-to-muzzle blowing down the barrel, this club runs by NMLRA rules and forbids such a practice.  i use a 10" length of 7/16" neoprene tubing for barrel blowing.  yeah, not period correct.  hah!

i'm trying REAL hard to get this club off the NMLRA and onto the TMA.  it's been a battle so far, but it ain't over and i ain't givin' up.