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Author Topic: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles  (Read 1854 times)

Offline Idaholewis

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Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« on: September 26, 2019, 11:19:17 AM »
Here is A video i did on Paper Patching bullets for Muzzleloading Rifles. If anyone is interested in trying this I would be glad to help you out. This is what actually got me Hooked on Muzzleloaders in the Beginning, i have a lot of Experience in this area, as i have been doing it non stop from my Beginning  :bl th up This stuff is EASY, and a Lot of Fun to do! So far i have not seen a Rifle that would not Shoot a Paper Patch Load, Most shoot them EXCEPTIONALLY Well

“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 11:29:53 AM »
Sorry in advance Guy’s, It easy to get Flubbered up and Ramble, Repeat myself in these darn videos, I know what i need/want to say but i catch myself wandering in to something else. I would be much better off to Write down things i need to say and check them off after i get done, otherwise I forget if i covered it or not? If anyone is interested in Paper Patching for their Rifle/Rifles i would be more than happy to answer any questions, And help get you going on the right track  :bl th up

This Video explains how I adjust Bullet fit
“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 11:33:46 AM »
Paper Patching for these Muzzleloaders is truly a LOT of Fun to do, Every aspect of it! Again, Paper Patching is what peaked my interest in these Old Muzzleloaders in my very beginning, and where most of my Knowledge is. I was like a Sponge soaking up all of the info i could on this stuff, Then a LOT of time on the Range Testing Different things, I have Sent a TON of lead down range with Paper attached to it  :bl th up It all started to come together for me, at this point i feel i have it down as good as I possibly can get it. I love shooting these Patched bullets, More so from a Bench on Targets, But i have Many Good SOLID hunting loads for them as well
“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 11:45:31 AM »
This is a Paper Patched bullet “Bump Test” Video i did to show what it takes to get the bullet to slide off the Powder Charge. This is not to Detour you from Trying Paper Patch, Just to Show the importance of Bullet fit. This is PRECISELY why i made Video number 2 above to show how to adjust Bullet fit.

This would also applies to Pure Soft lead Bullets like the Maxi Ball, Lee R.E.A.L. Lyman Plains etc. Even with the Oversize Front Driving bands. In certain barrels, Upon Loading about 3/4 of the Way down the Bullet Driving Band “Gives up” and the Bullet has VERY little Holding Resistance left. I worked diligently on a Solution to this for my Grease Groove Bullets, Here is what i came up with To combat this problem, i bumped up the Lead Hardness just a Little, and that worked like a Dream! I can tinker with Lead Hardness just a Little and adjust Bullet fit per Bore, I can make them load Easier, or Tighter by adjusting Lead Hardness

Again, this is NOT to Scare ya, just Educate on the importance of Bullet Fit, especially if you plan to Hunt with Paper Patch, In a controlled environment such as Target/Bench Shooting i prefer a Looser Fitting Bullet, i want that Bullet to just “Kiss” the Rifling on the Way down (Tip to me from 2 time World Champion, Lee Shaver’s  :bl th up


“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 11:54:43 AM »
Here is another method that i came up with to tighten up a PP Bullet for HUNTING ONLY, I did this about a Year ago. I tested the cold bore Shot loaded like this for Several days in a Row, accuracy was not effected in the least, My Cold bore shots Hit right where they supposed to when Loaded this way. With paper measuring 0.002 single, this ads 0.004 to the Bullet, if you load your Cold bore shot like this it will NOT budge until you Pull the Trigger!  :bl th up





I filled my tag with method above, about a Whole Hour in to Doe Tag  :)
“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 12:02:50 PM »
You hear me refer to “Tuck” On a Flat Base Bullet Paper Patched, The actual name is “Short Patch”

Notice how Meticulous the tuck is? These Bases are EXTREMELY IMPORT The Bullet Base is what Steers the Bullet, Except NOTHING But Perfect Bullet Bases  :bl th up (Another Tip to me From Lee Shaver’s)

Short Patch


A Flat Base Bullet Paper Patched Should Stand perfectly, just as it would Exit the Bore. A Twisted Tail left hanging underneath is a NO NO!

“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 12:13:49 PM »
When you hear me refer to PERFECT Bullet bases this is what i mean, If you Cast your own Bullets and are serious about Accuracy EXCEPT NOTHING BUT PERFECT BULLET BASES if they are not Perfect, melt them back down and Try again. Remember, Our Bullet Bases are what actually Steer our Bullets NOT THE FANCY NOSE

These are Bullets i cast from a Custom BACO mold, This is a Cupped base, Nose pour design Mold. Notice how SHARP and perfect these Bases are? That is what you are after  :bl th up I shoot these Particular Bullets to 825 Yards



“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 12:20:03 PM »
I have often wondered who was the 1st person to think of Paper Patching a Bullet?

I copied this from another forum, It is a Good Read, With links at bottom. If you are in to History you will enjoy this  :bl th up

I have been trying to narrow down who exactly first conceived of using paper patch bullets in metallic cartridges as there is a huge gap between when Sir Jos. Whitworth decided to paper patch his hexagonal slugs for his eponymous muzzleloading rifle and their appearance in cartridges sometime around approx. 1870. I think the answer may be someone whose name we all have heard of: Hiram Berdan. The Berdan I Rifle (1868) used "A lubricated paper wrapped .42 caliber bullet in a brass case." Interestingly, Berdan was using brass at this early date. The earliest Remington RB Military Rifle chambered for anything larger than pistols ctgs. was the 12.17×42mm RF for Sweden & Norway and used a grease groove bullet. The .43 Spanish was not adopted by Spain until 1870. The facts are that Hiram Berdan first utilized paper patch bullets starting in 1868. The rifles were made by Colt ironically as Berdan was an engineer and not a manufacturer. These were sold to Russia.

Ironically, the .42 Berdan held 77 gr. of BP and the patched bullet weighed approx. 386 gr. It would appear that for whatever reason this caused an avalanche of outright copying in that the .43 Spanish of 1870, Sharps .44-70 (initial loading) & the .43 Mauser of 1871 are practically identical. Berdan, aside form his Civil War fame, was an incredible engineer who had made a fortune on patents allowing him the luxury to dabble in firearms.

http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?1870AmmoBerdan.htm&1

“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Hawken

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2019, 03:05:25 PM »
I'll just stay with this:

PRB by Sharps Man, on Flickr
"There ain't no freedom...without gunpowder!"

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2019, 05:43:11 PM »
I'll just stay with this:

I shoot those as well, and enjoy them very much.  :bl th up




But when i decide to get Serious with Accuracy, i switch to Paper Patch  :bl th up This is just 1 of NUMEROUS Groups i have turned out like this with Patched Bullets From my Fast 1:20 Twist .45 Cals




“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Offline Maven

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 06:52:50 PM »
You can find lots of information on the Cast Boolits site, specifically the BP Paper Patching sub-forum, on paper patching.  The sticky, Paper 101 (3rd from the top) ia very informative, as is Buckshot's (Rick Tunell) short post on sources of paper suitable for paper patching (below):

Strathmore: 300 Series Tracing paper. 25 lb .0016"

Mead: #54200, tracing paper. No weight listed, .0017"

Office Depot brand: item 345854. Vellum, 16 lb. 100% cotton, white translucent paper, .0025"

Staedtler: Bought at Office Depot. Vellum, 25% cotton .0027"

Mead: # 38102 Medium weight, erasable bond typing paper. .0028"




Online RobD

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2019, 08:34:43 PM »
for me and my muzzleloaders, i prefer to emulate the mid 18th century, so it's flintlock replicas and patched balls for long gun barrel innards that are twisted or smooth.  however, i only load and shoot patched slicks (aka "PPBs" or "paper patched bullets") for late 19th century cartridge rifle replicas; sharps and rollers.  the concepts and practices are identical in every respect for each discipline with regards to the projectile build and proper fouling control.  some mighty fine really long range shooting (800, 900 and 1000 yards) has been accomplished with percussion muzzleloaders firing patched slicks ... and PPBs offer no leading, to boot.  if supreme accuracy was my goal with a muzzleloader, it'd be absolutely found with a gibbs percussion in .45 caliber.

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 06:31:41 PM »
You can find lots of information on the Cast Boolits site, specifically the BP Paper Patching sub-forum, on paper patching.  The sticky, Paper 101 (3rd from the top) ia very informative, as is Buckshot's (Rick Tunell) short post on sources of paper suitable for paper patching (below):

Strathmore: 300 Series Tracing paper. 25 lb .0016"

Mead: #54200, tracing paper. No weight listed, .0017"

Office Depot brand: item 345854. Vellum, 16 lb. 100% cotton, white translucent paper, .0025"

Staedtler: Bought at Office Depot. Vellum, 25% cotton .0027"

Mead: # 38102 Medium weight, erasable bond typing paper. .0028"



Good info on the Paper Maven  :bl th up

 I put this up for those don’t do the Castboolit Thing anymore  :) (Myself Being one of them)

 I am friends with Rick Tunell (Buckshot) I have several Custom sizers from Rick, He and i just put about an Hour in on the Phone Recently, Rick is a SOLID, Honest Guy  :bl th up
“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown

Online RobD

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2019, 05:26:14 PM »
i've been using papermill fidelity onion with good BPCR results, and that'd be worth a try for patching muzzy bullets.  PM me yer address and i'll send you some to cut up and test.

please bear with me a bit, i'm gonna talk BPCR but there is a correlation to PPB (paper patched bullet) muzzys.  the absolute KEY to paper patching is the fit of the combined diameter of bullet and patching, and the fit of the resulting PPB in the chamber.  changing the patching thickness can make a big difference.  with BPCR, almost everyone is using a bore rider with an easy slip fit of the PPB into the chamber.  a proper PPB bore rider cartridge will have the PPB sitting inside the case 1/10" (no, that's not a typo).  the next question is, what chamber?  if it's a custom PPB chamber with little to nearly zero freebore, the bullet's base will have a minimal obturate squeeze into the rifling.  if it's a greaser chamber, with some (to a lot) of freebore, there will be lots more of the PPB to expand in the freebore area and then get squished down to meet both the bore/lands and grooves.  the great thing is that NONE of this is a problem with a muzzleloader since the "chamber" is the bore and grooves. 

SO, i would expect that a loose fitting (bore rider) patched bullet down the gullet of a muzzy barrel would have excellent expansion (obturation) with none of the issues associated with a cartridge PPB.  in order for ANY of this to work well for both muzzy and cartridge guns, the bore MUST be wiped between shots.  failure to do a good bore wipe will absolutely mean loss of consistent accuracy.  in the BPCR world we use home made "gophers" made with nylon bristled cleaning brushes, VFG felts, and neoprene squeegee "O" rings.  this pushes the considerable bp residue out the tube from the chamber end in ONE pass of a gopher that's been backed with a clean/dry patch.  no question it will take a LOT more effort/work to reasonably clean out a muzzy barrel! 

Offline Idaholewis

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Re: Paper Patching for Muzzleloading Rifles
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 09:33:59 AM »
i've been using papermill fidelity onion with good BPCR results, and that'd be worth a try for patching muzzy bullets.  PM me yer address and i'll send you some to cut up and test.

please bear with me a bit, i'm gonna talk BPCR but there is a correlation to PPB (paper patched bullet) muzzys.  the absolute KEY to paper patching is the fit of the combined diameter of bullet and patching, and the fit of the resulting PPB in the chamber.  changing the patching thickness can make a big difference.  with BPCR, almost everyone is using a bore rider with an easy slip fit of the PPB into the chamber.  a proper PPB bore rider cartridge will have the PPB sitting inside the case 1/10" (no, that's not a typo).  the next question is, what chamber?  if it's a custom PPB chamber with little to nearly zero freebore, the bullet's base will have a minimal obturate squeeze into the rifling.  if it's a greaser chamber, with some (to a lot) of freebore, there will be lots more of the PPB to expand in the freebore area and then get squished down to meet both the bore/lands and grooves.  the great thing is that NONE of this is a problem with a muzzleloader since the "chamber" is the bore and grooves. 

SO, i would expect that a loose fitting (bore rider) patched bullet down the gullet of a muzzy barrel would have excellent expansion (obturation) with none of the issues associated with a cartridge PPB.  in order for ANY of this to work well for both muzzy and cartridge guns, the bore MUST be wiped between shots.  failure to do a good bore wipe will absolutely mean loss of consistent accuracy.  in the BPCR world we use home made "gophers" made with nylon bristled cleaning brushes, VFG felts, and neoprene squeegee "O" rings.  this pushes the considerable bp residue out the tube from the chamber end in ONE pass of a gopher that's been backed with a clean/dry patch.  no question it will take a LOT more effort/work to reasonably clean out a muzzy barrel!

Rob, i would LOVE a Sheet of that Paper to Try! Thank you for the Generous offer! I have some Old 9# Onion Skin 25% Cotton Stuff, it measures just a little Shy of .002 Single, 2 Wraps will bring a .442 Diameter Bullet up to .449, Which i have found to be ideal in a .450-.451 Bore. I have Paper Patch Bullets that Range from .442, to .444 in Diameter. I have every size of Sizer I could possibly use. If i had it to do over I would have bought a Swinglock, or a Hankins adjustable Sizing Die Instead of 10 Lee’s  :)

I have been tinkering with Paper Patch in Muzzleloaders from my Very Beginning in this Stuff, it is actually what got me interested in Muzzleloaders. I have had Several Custom Bullet molds made for it. You might have read Ron’s Stuff (Idahoron) on Paper Patching? It is on CB in the Muzzleloader Section, they made it a Sticky for him, That is actually what got me interested, But after playing around with it some, and Speaking to guy’s like Dave Gullo, And Lee Shaver’s I QUICKLY Gave up on Ron’s Method and went a different Route.

 The Main difference with me and Ron is the Bullet Diameter from the Mold. For .50 Cal Ron uses a Lee S&W 500 Bullet, that Bullet Drops from the Mold at around .502, He then Wraps his 9# onion Skin Paper (2 Wraps, which would bring his Bullet up to .508-.510 Depending on Paper thickness of course) They are then Forced Through a .501 Sizing Die. I tried it in my VERY Beginning, i had problems with it, (I got Bullets stuck in my sizer Die from my Lead being a bit to Hard at 9-9.5 BHN, And Papers sticking to the Bullets in Flight, The Paper is WELDED on after being Sized)
      For .50 Cal PP Muzzleloader i use a .492-.494 Diameter Bullet, Depending on Bore Diameter and Paper thickness? What I am doing, is Patching “UP TO BORE” My Patched Bullets DON’T Need Sized, Worse case scenario If i have a TIGHT Fit, i will run them through a Sizer that is .001 under, All this does is “Iron” the Paper and Makes for easier Loading.

 It wasn’t long after i got going, i was over at Buffalo Arms picking up supplies, i had a Box of Their .442 and .444 Diameter Cupped Base Swaged PP Slicks, Dave Gullo (BACO Owner) Asked me what i was doing with them? I explained it to him, He IMMEDIATELY said “You are wiping between Shots”  ;D I said YEP! With Real Blackpowder you simply have to, I tried to reload a Swiss 2F Fouled bore, Trying to Mimic a Hunting/Reload Situation, I could NOT get that Patched Bullet Down the Bore Without Stripping the Paper, Wiping Between Shots is an ABSOLUTE Must with Real Blackpowder.
“Absolutely nothing is good enough if it can be made better. And better is never good enough if it can be made best." Author Unknown