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Author Topic: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle  (Read 2931 times)

Offline Puffer

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Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« on: February 26, 2020, 01:08:07 PM »
The .46-caliber Girandoni air rifle was a secret weapon on the Lewis and Clark Expedition. ??

Any added comments ????
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2020, 02:15:43 PM »
The .46-caliber Girandoni air rifle was a secret weapon on the Lewis and Clark Expedition. ??

Any added comments ????

Indeed it was, to my understanding... He baffled the Native Tribes with it - being able to fire continuously with it - without reloading it in the conventional way like the muzzleloading fire arms... Big medicine!!!! I understand he even kilt a buffler with it.  :o
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Offline Meanwhile

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2020, 04:31:05 PM »


Thanks for bringing this to light.  I did not realize the importance of this weapon.

But then I live in Oregon and have never visited Fort Clatsop.

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Online Winter Hawk

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2020, 04:02:32 PM »
Interesting video.  What I remember from Ambrose's book and other sources, is that no one knows for sure WHO made the air rifle carried on the L&C expedition.  It could have been a Girandoni, but there were others available as well.  Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm going by a failing memory....

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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2020, 04:12:50 PM »
What amazes me is a type of "needle valve" technology of that time with what I would imagine leathers & spring bearing to hold and charge a cylinder with that much pressure, and the "pump" to do it with...  What was it he said,,, 1500 strokes for a full charge... Amazing IMHO for the time period... :o 

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Online Winter Hawk

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2020, 07:07:28 PM »
1500 strokes with a bicycle pump.  I don't know what type of pump they had for it back then.  I'll have to dig out Ambrose's book and see if he has anything on that.

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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2020, 07:13:18 PM »
Kees, in the video I posted above you, the guy in that shows one, and how to use it. Also shows a pack that the soldier would have been issued when he carried one of these rifles... Actually, pretty amazing stuff. Worth a watch for sure.He also tells why the rifle carried a ramrod.
 :shake
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Online RobD

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2020, 07:23:28 PM »
air guns have their place, but mostly not so much.  however, the girandoni was simply a marvelous achievement for its time.

Online Hank in WV

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2020, 10:02:43 PM »
He mentioned that the Austrian army would later use them as sniper rifles. It seems they would have to use them as single shots or keep them fully loaded. Other wise they would be awfully noisy. Not a good thing for a sniper.
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2020, 10:18:02 PM »
He mentioned that the Austrian army would later use them as sniper rifles. It seems they would have to use them as single shots or keep them fully loaded. Other wise they would be awfully noisy. Not a good thing for a sniper.

Good point Hank, however with no flash or smoke and range out to 100 - 125 yards, might make a good rifle to take out Pickets in the evening, and any men or officers that may present themselves as targets, especially when one takes in camp noise as a factor for concealing where the shot came from?  :shake
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Offline One Shot

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 03:37:55 AM »
In the video at 4:13 off his left shoulder on the wall with a horn patch/ball and what appears to be a ball starter. Is this a h/c item or a prop for display? If it is a h/c item what time period is it from.
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 08:45:14 AM »
I saw it. It looks like a ball starter to me as well. I don't know if we can pin point an exact time period on the display. I would expect it to represent the Lewis & Clark time period...
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Online RobD

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Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2020, 09:17:10 AM »
short ball starter?  let's think on this a bit.  the predominant firestick of the 18th century was the smoothbore musket or fowler.  it's predominant use was for three key reasons - sustenance, defense, warfare.  this made far better practical sense for the citizen farmer as a hunter/defender since one gun could do it all, particularly mid 18th century as medium game in the nor'east was literally decimated by the native americans so they could barter skins for trade guns and game for table fare was more fowl than deer.  the rate of fire was best for the military, specifically for 17th and 18th defense and warfare, where quick shots trumped accuracy, and as such the speed of loading was mandatory.  as a result of this need, tight loads and/or rifled bores (and their pervasive fouling) were avoided like the smallpox plague.  so were rifles in the general military and on more than a few occasions militia joining the American army had to trade in rifles for muskets.  so while there might have been military short ball starters in europe during the late 18th century through early 19th century, their use was not widespread and no proof in either prose or physical artifact has yet to be found here in the Americas.  this is not to say short starters did not exist for the Colonials; i believe they had to have existed, but were absolutely for special purposes and not at all the norm.     

Online rollingb

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2020, 10:31:11 AM »
I tend to agree with Rob about the use, or lack of, short starters 200-300 years ago,.... I also think, if a short starter is ever found and can be documented as being from the 1700's-1800's, it won't look like the one hanging on that wall which (suspiciously) resembles the modern commercial starters available today.

Just my opinion FWIW.  :)
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Lewis and Clark’s Girandoni Air Rifle
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2020, 10:56:09 AM »
One thing about the ol' ball starter... If it wasn't used to load a tight patched ball back in what we call the "day" - in the future (if traditional muzzle loading survives the future) the short starter will be common place...

Heck, I've already used one for 44/45 years now - so that's closing in on a half century... I would have had to have gotten the idea of a "short starter" from those that were using them prior to me using one... So just how far it dates back is really unknown, but in today's world - it's a pretty common placed item for loading a rifled barrel, so I wouldn't worry to much about it.

With the above said; This past weekend I finished setting up one of my shooting bags with two ball boards,,, one with patched .433 balls for loading without the "ball starter" - and one with .445 balls for loading with a ball starter... So I reckon I'm covered both ways should I ever end up in a shooting match that says I can't use a short starter (which I doubt this will ever happen) - but if it does, I'm ready!  :bl th up

All I have to do know is work on my less accurate .433 patch & ball load... Which I'll do if the wind ever stops blowing.  :shake
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