Renegade mark

[shootrj2003]

I have a T C Renegade in .54 (the original cal.)also a barrel in .50 not that the caliber is important,but the .54 barrel has a mark on the patent breech,years ago when I first bought it ,I thought it was maybe some kind of lock screw used to lock the breech and then finished off til the slot was almost gone then blued.Frankly that’s what it looked like to me.However I have never seen such a lock screw on other breeches and after seeing some of the early makers marks on TC’s ,I am wondering if it is a makers mark,if not,does anybody know what it is for real …or…hazard an idea?or maybe it is a screw? [ Invalid Attachment ]
  It does seem to have taken the bluing different than the breech steel as a separate piece and alloy.

[Fyrstyk]

That is the plug that is used to drill out the breech plug for the patent breech.  T/C used to drill this hole from the nipple side of the barrel and plug the hole with a small screw.  Many thought this was a "clean out" screw for cleaning the fire channel.  In the course of removing, (or trying to) the screw, the screw got buggered up or was stuck.  T/C got tired of replacing the screws and/or removing the stuck screws (which do not need to be removed to clean the gun) so they started drilling the access hole from the other side and plugging the hole with a blind plug flush with the barrel flat and blued with the barrel.  The plug is a different metal than the barrel, and that is why the blueing is a different color.

[Ohio Joe]

Well,,, I don't know? If I had to venture a guess, it might be a makers mark or a Mark location for a flintlock "left hand" vent? -or- A drill hole plug for the percussion chamber port?

Best I've got, sorry - probably no help at all. 

I'm sure Fyrstyk above, has it right.

[shootrj2003]

  So if I got this right ,I think,it is where they drilled the hole for the fire channel through the patent breech “chamber”to the nipple hole. Then they needed to plug the end with a,preferably, Non-removable  filler plug(one less thing to worry about being tampered with) thank you that makes sense as I remember seeing pictures of the older screw in the snail under the nipple  wondering about it.(I thought it was a clean out screw!) thanks fyrstyk.
  In retrospect I should have looked at my .50 barrel much later serial 304xxx and it is much more indicative of a plug in the same spot.
 One more question,if one wanted to remove the breech ,do these plugs intrude into the barrel / breech threading so as to lock the breech plug in place or at least make it harder to unscrew the breech?( note to nervous nelly’s I don’t at present plan to remove this plug but should I in the future desire to ,I see no big deal about it and want to have an idea of all the angles and obstacles involved,I am capable and willing to take the risk in order to have access to both ends of the pipe!) OWNERS DISCLAIMER AND ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH RISK.
 Thanks again,for that answer to a long time puzzle Fyrstyk.Also thanks to you Joe ,you did have the answer.

[Ohio Joe]

  So if I got this right ,I think,it is where they drilled the hole for the fire channel through the patent breech “chamber”to the nipple hole. Then they needed to plug the end with a,preferably, Non-removable  filler plug(one less thing to worry about being tampered with) thank you that makes sense as I remember seeing pictures of the older screw in the snail under the nipple  wondering about it.(I thought it was a clean out screw!) thanks fyrstyk.
  In retrospect I should have looked at my .50 barrel much later serial 304xxx and it is much more indicative of a plug in the same spot.
 One more question,if one wanted to remove the breech ,do these plugs intrude into the barrel / breech threading so as to lock the breech plug in place or at least make it harder to unscrew the breech?( note to nervous nelly’s I don’t at present plan to remove this plug but should I in the future desire to ,I see no big deal about it and want to have an idea of all the angles and obstacles involved,I am capable and willing to take the risk in order to have access to both ends of the pipe!) OWNERS DISCLAIMER AND ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH RISK.
 Thanks again,for that answer to a long time puzzle Fyrstyk.Also thanks to you Joe ,you did have the answer.

My TC Hawken has a plug in that same area. (this was built from one of their later kits) It's smooth with the barrel flat and matches the barrel's bluing / but you can see where the plug has been installed.    There is a small "clean out screw" located at the bottom "face" side of the snail, but I've never removed it. Never found it necessary to get the rifle clean.

And, if there ever should be a "fouled load" issue because of a clogged port, it's nothing that a little 4fg or even 3fg under the nipple won't cure, though I've never had to do this with this rifle. I think mainly because I use RWS Hot caps.   

[Fyrstyk]

The blind plug is only threaded into the barrel wall.  It will not interfere with removal of the breech plug should you decide to remove the breech plug.  Really no need to.

[Bigsmoke]

Also, please remember that at the time they were doing all this, T/C also offered a breech plug wrench for the removal of the breech plug (what else good would it be? )

[PetahW]

.

And...… I would NEVER try to separate the barrel and the breech plug w/o that specific/special wrench...… 



YMMV...…   

[Bigsmoke]

.

And...… I would NEVER try to separate the barrel and the breech plug w/o that specific/special wrench...… 



YMMV...…   

Ya mean a couple of big ole Crescent wrenches wouldn't do the job.  Maybe even pipe wrenches?

[shootrj2003]

  How do you know that??

[Ohio Joe]

The blind plug is only threaded into the barrel wall.  It will not interfere with removal of the breech plug should you decide to remove the breech plug.  Really no need to.

My understanding for well over 40+ years is that there is no reason what-so-ever to remove a fully functional breech-plug for any reason, nor a vent or a nipple, or a nipple drum - but only for replacement (for whatever reason that may be). I believe in the idea (fact) that we're dealing with soft metals, and continuous removal and re' tightening of these areas will stretch the soft metals and get them out of alignment.

[RobD]

Clearly, that's a plug.  Looks like it was a bolt because there's space around it that was probably a bolt thread.  It appears to be on the bbl's left side, meaning the bbl was for a left handed firearm, now converted to a right hand bbl.  The two marks outside the plug could have been done by the carbide wheel in a dremel, to slot it deeper to remove the original vent liner, just a guess (been there a time or two, done just that).

The ONLY time I remove a breech plug or vent liner (or the bolster on a cap gun) is to inspect and anti-seize lube, or to remove a VERY stubbornly stuck dry ball, or to replace the part that was removed for other reasons.

[Ohio Joe]

Clearly, that's a plug.  Looks like it was a bolt because there's space around it that was probably a bolt thread.  It appears to be on the bbl's left side, meaning the bbl was for a left handed firearm, now converted to a right hand bbl.  The two marks outside the plug could have been done by the carbide wheel in a dremel, to slot it deeper to remove the original vent liner, just a guess (been there a time or two, done just that).

The ONLY time I remove a breech plug or vent liner (or the bolster on a cap gun) is to inspect and anti-seize lube, or to remove a VERY stubbornly stuck dry ball, or to replace the part that was removed for other reasons.

 

And you have the proper tool to do so. 

[RobD]

Clearly, that's a plug.  Looks like it was a bolt because there's space around it that was probably a bolt thread.  It appears to be on the bbl's left side, meaning the bbl was for a left handed firearm, now converted to a right hand bbl.  The two marks outside the plug could have been done by the carbide wheel in a dremel, to slot it deeper to remove the original vent liner, just a guess (been there a time or two, done just that).

The ONLY time I remove a breech plug or vent liner (or the bolster on a cap gun) is to inspect and anti-seize lube, or to remove a VERY stubbornly stuck dry ball, or to replace the part that was removed for other reasons.

 

And you have the proper tool to do so. 

Make that plural - tools - ya need one for offshore patent breech plugs and one for classic onshore flat breech plugs.     

Any new or new-to-me muzzy (which is always a flinter) gets the plug and liner pulled so that both can be anti-seize lubed.  In the case of not-new gun, to also inspect the plug face, chamber and bore.

[Ohio Joe]

I'm curious Rob, have you found the TC's and the offshore brand ML's - not to have any lubrication at all on their plug?