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Author Topic: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control  (Read 370 times)

Offline RobD

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Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« on: March 26, 2022, 09:11:30 AM »
As some of you good folks may remember, those pesky patent breech plugs found on all the offshore guns present an issue and concern for both fouling control and cleaning.  These plugs have an ante-chamber that's smaller in diameter than the bbl's bore.  Thus, normal cleaning rods can't get into the ante-chamber to swab out the fouling during shooting.  Now I know, some folks can get off a dozen shots without addressing patent breech fouling control, but whether the plug needs cleaning out every other shot or every dozen shots, it needs attending.  To clean out the ante-chamber requires a wet patch draped brush that's ante-chamber sized, typically a 6mm brush will do well.  So ya first clean the bore, which pushes a buncha BP residue into the ante-chamber, which is already loaded with lotsa of residue since it's at the base of powder ignition.  Then ya change rods or swap out the jag head for a brush head and address the breech.

I've messed around with more than a few methods of cleaning out FOULING (not a final cleaning of the bbl) from both the bore and chamber in one fell swoop.  Again, cleaning out fouling is not about doing a full on bbl clean, it means to get rid of most, but not all, fouling so that the next powder charge down the tube has a much better chance of igniting by spark or cap.

The following is a special rod and method I've been working on for a few days and the testing has gone quite well with no hang ups.  The gun in question is a Lyman .50 Trade gun with 28" bbl.

I took a 36" x 3/8" Home Depot oak dowel and rasp/sanded in a 3/4" x 1/4" tenon at one end.  The tenon end is rounded, to best fit into the concave back end of all patent plugs.  A saw blade slot was cut down the tenon and into the main body of the rod, about 3/4" past the tenon.  The tenon and entire slot is treated with wicked-in water thin CYA to harden and seal the wood.  Insert patch material into the slot - this will take a little testing to see what will work best for a specific gun bore.  With the .50, I used 2" Arsenal compressed cotton patches.  I've also used a thicker patch fitted in first, to make for a better fit of the 3/8" rod to the bore, and a thinner patch for the tenon's fit into the ante-chamber. 

Again, this is not about a thorough bore/chamber cleaning, it's about getting most of the BP crud out of both the ante-chamber and bore, with two strokes - a damp patch(es) and a dry patch(es).  With this .50 flinter, I can generally get off 4 or 5 shots before fouling becomes noticeable, and two swipes of the rod take care of that pronto.

The other non-tenon end is either left flat or slightly dished, and wicked in CYA to harden it.  This end goes into the pipes first, so that ball ramming is done with an up and out, pushed the patched ball down, up and down back into the pipes.  Easy peasy.

What if a patch comes off the rod and is stuck in the chamber or bbl??  That did happen once in over a dozen uses of the rod and it took a 6mm brush to twizzle out the stuck patch.  What I will do is drill a hole into the rod's ball ramming end and self tap in a 6mm brush that I'll keep in my shooting bag.  :)

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Online PetahW

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2022, 10:10:24 AM »
.

It certainly seems to be the solution to the issue, but I've been able to avoid the issue in the first place....

IOW, I've never had to clear the ante chamber in my .45 T/C Cherokee & Senaca rifles since I acquired them about 35 years ago.

IMO, the reason is that after a day's shooting (mostly hunting), I remove the nipple for separate cleaning under running warm water, then with the muzzle "up" pour some Ox-Yoke/TC No. 10 Bore Cleaner ( aka: "Moose Milk" ) downbore to flush out the chamber through the ignition channel.

I also load a patch with the cleaner & push any residual cleaner out through the chamber - later setting the barrel, muzzle "up" for awhile to fully drain/dry before slathering the bore with Bore Butter for protection until the next time I use the gun.

When finished, the last thing I do is coat the exterior metal with the same BB patch.

Never a problem with rust or fouling ( I only use Holy Black).

Works for me, although it might not work for constant firing, as in competition/practice.

.
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Offline RobD

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2022, 10:23:59 AM »
Patent breech fouling is almost never a hunting issue - it's range or competition issue when a gun will be fired many times. 

Most woods walks or matches will require in excess of a dozen shots and for SOME guns, maybe MOST guns, fouling spoils consistent accuracy and thus fouling control is mandatory.

Offline Bigsmoke

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2022, 12:07:55 PM »
Hmmmmm, going back to the mid 1960's when I first shot a black powder gun, I cannot recall a time when I have been bothered with fouling buildup.  In that time, a myriad of Thompson Center guns have come and gone and they have all been used in competition to some extreme.  The only time I had a fouling problem was back at Friendship shooting a silhouette match with a traditional flintlock.  Half way through the match, the fouling built up past the touch hole and the rifle no go boom no more.
My cleaning method is to simply remove the nipple and then put the breach end of the barrel into a soup can full of Ol' Thunder Bore Solvent and run a cleaning patch back and forth.  Pulling the solvent through the breach plug seems to adequately clean the internal passages.  As said above, I have never had problems with the rifles not firing.
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Offline RobD

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2022, 12:11:10 PM »
Hmmmmm, going back to the mid 1960's when I first shot a black powder gun, I cannot recall a time when I have been bothered with fouling buildup.  In that time, a myriad of Thompson Center guns have come and gone and they have all been used in competition to some extreme.  The only time I had a fouling problem was back at Friendship shooting a silhouette match with a traditional flintlock.  Half way through the match, the fouling built up past the touch hole and the rifle no go boom no more.
My cleaning method is to simply remove the nipple and then put the breach end of the barrel into a soup can full of Ol' Thunder Bore Solvent and run a cleaning patch back and forth.  Pulling the solvent through the breach plug seems to adequately clean the internal passages.  As said above, I have never had problems with the rifles not firing.
John (Bigsmoke)

Happy for you, John ... however "for SOME guns, maybe MOST guns, fouling spoils consistent accuracy and thus fouling control is mandatory."

Offline Ironhand

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2022, 01:45:59 PM »
I have found that, for most guns, a 410 shotgun bore mop fits nicely into the patent breech. Plus, if you wash them out they are reusable.

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Offline RobD

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2022, 08:08:08 PM »
I have found that, for most guns, a 410 shotgun bore mop fits nicely into the patent breech. Plus, if you wash them out they are reusable.

IronHand

Yes, the typical patent breech has about a .336" ante-chamber and a mop that size is fine, but a mop that gets wet and dirty can't be used to dry out the chamber.  You'd need a clean dry mop to do that.  Fine for cleaning, not that good for fouling control at the range. 

This is where a 6mm nylon brush draped with a DAMP cleaning patch is the better option. 

But better yet is just a cleaning patch or two as described in the first post of this thread, it's a more practical approach and it works well and - important! - fast and easy.







 


Online BEAVERMAN

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2022, 09:17:13 PM »
actually a douche of chlorinated auto brake cleaner displaces any water in the breech and flash drys with not problems, in the shop I use compressed air, using a semi wet patch everytime I load a ball helps keep the bore clean and I can sit on the bench with my GPR, shoot 20 rounds into a 3 inch circle no problem, what are you using for patch lube?
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Offline Hanshi

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 04:21:52 PM »
I do not like patent breeches, never have and never will.  But OTOH I've owned several over the years and fired them a lot without any problems related to the PB.  I always cleaned out the antechamber with a bore swab or brush during normal cleaning at the end of the day.  My thought is that they are a poor solution to a nonexistent problem.  But they seem to be like a religion to foreign gun makers.

I only have one rifle with a PB and it is a favorite of mine.  Again the PB has proved to be no problem whatsoever; but that doesn't mean I like them.
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2022, 12:21:19 PM »
I have PB rifles (and pistols), and the one thing I found that works best to restrict fouling in that anti-chamber is to use a (spit patch when target shooting) and a (lubed patch when hunting). Granted, you're going to have to zero your hunting rifle(s) with a lubed patch, and what I have found is that after that you can go to your spit patched ball and most likely will have no accuracy problems what-so-ever afterwards - and in this way you can always go back to the lubed patch for hunting.

IMHO, good ol' human spit makes the best patch lube when target shooting, and really cuts down on the fouling!!!

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Online The Miner '49er

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Re: Addressing Patent Breech Fouling Control
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2022, 04:23:55 PM »
Not as elegant nor effective as RobD's invention, but when I want to clean the fouling from the PB, I use the KISS method. I cut Q-tips in half and wind a little masking tape on the shaft. Next step is to take one and twist it into the end of a .30 caliber cleaning rod. Works for me for cleaning, drying and lubing that part of the barrel. I probably use about 5 or 6 of them, but it's certainly cheap and easy. Don't see why this couldn't be done while shooting a match as well as at the end of a day of shooting.
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