Ignition temp.

[No Powder]

I recently acquired two partial cans of black powder from a friend. The cans were metal and were a little bit rusty. I questioned  the condition of the cans and powder inside. So he wanted to try it. One can was FFFG and the other was FFFFG. He dumped about 3 grains out of each can on separate piles. He then got a lighter with a tube on for lighting charcoal . He lit the lighter and slowly slid into each pile of powder. Nothing happened. I've read that the ignition temp. of black powder is from 350 degrees to 600 degrees F. I tried powder from both cans in my TC Renegade and it worked just fine. Why would the lighter not ignite the powder?
             I'm confused as usual.

[Nessmuk]

Good Question, I had a similar experience with a can of "Iffy" powder.  Tried a lighter and no joy, then I threw a wooden match on it and it went up fine.
Is there a chemist or chemical engineer out there that can explain this?

[Ohio Joe]

The first thing that comes to mind;

Are you sure it's real black powder and not a black powder replacement? (side note; It's real if it ignited in a flintlock).

The second thing that comes to mind is;

Pour some powder out of the can and see if it's clumpy - since you mentioned there is rust on the can. If it is clumpy / take a copper wire (like the bare ground wire from 12-2 electrical wire and break up the clumps with that.

Which BP Brand is this?

Contrary to some beliefs - real Black Powder does not break down / it's only effected by moisture, and once it's dried it's completely usable... "fake / substitute BP does break down"

 

[No Powder]

Well Joe, both cans are metal Goex  cans. After talking to the former owner, and comparing both granulations to my good Goex  powder, I'm 99% sure it's real Goex blackpowder. Furthermore it worked fine in the Renegade. I have both cans marked range use only. I have been told by two individuals that black powder needs a spark to ignite it .I don't swallow that. But I did read that the sulfur content in the powder can change the ignition temp. But I don' t believe that applies in this case.

[Ohio Joe]

You live in a far more humid area than me, Tom... I wonder if this was the case perhaps? 

[No Powder]

It's highly possible Joe.There's one thing for certain, the more I am around black powder the less I trust it. It's gonna take a smarter person than me to figure this out.
Hey Nessmuk  maybe you can figure it out.Thanks Joe. Good to chew the fat with you again buddy. You all come back again now. Ya hear?

[Nessmuk]

Challenge accepted, No Powder!!
I contacted my sister (The Professor) and she forwarded the question to the Physics and Chemical Science guys.
I received 4 answering Emails and spent an hour translating them from science to English. Translation below::

1) Why didn't the butane lighter set off the powder?  Answer: The hottest part of a butane flame is about 3/4s of the way up the flame, the 3 grain pile was likely not tall enough to reach that point. However, they said, if left in the powder long enough it would ignite.

2) Why did the match and the cap ignite the powder immediately?  Answer: The burning phosphorus of the match and the reaction of the cap are a higher immediate temperature than the butane flame, also they are applied directly to the powder.

While I don't guarantee the science geeks are right, it sounds pretty logical

[No Powder]

Job well done Nessmuk . You get an official attaboy. I think I'll use that powder in the postal shoots. I think questionable powder was mentioned in Two Steps book of excuses.Thanks Nessmuk