Your TMA Officers and Board of Directors
Support the TMA! ~ Traditional Muzzleloaders ~ The TMA is here for YOU!
*** JOIN in on the TMA 2024 POSTAL MATCH *** it's FREE for ALL !

For TMA related products, please check out the new TMA Store !

The Flintlock Paper

*** Folk Firearms Collective Videos ***



Author Topic: update on my kibler experience  (Read 4517 times)

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
update on my kibler experience
« on: October 22, 2023, 10:37:36 PM »
  Sometime back I sighted in the the ol' gal ( ginger)  my .54 woodsrunner. using a .530 ball and .018 ticking spit patch, I tried a few different lubes also but i really think spit is the way to go at least for me.  anyway shooting from a bench I had her shooting minute of deer out to 50 yds and i was happy.
  Using the original french amber flint that came in the lock i got off approx 45 shots without touching that flint. no tightening the jaws, knapping, nothing.
  I replaced that flint with another similar french flint 3/4" and i shot the new flint maybe 4-5 shots and after a cleaning put her up .

 Fast forward to today, our monthly club shoot, surely ginger would rule the day, oh how i was wrong.
 Now don't ask me why but when I packed my stuff for the shoot i packed .535 balls and for whatever reason i grabbed a bag of precut .018 ticking patches soaked in bear grease. dumb dumb dumb. I had to beat on the short starter to get that combo to seat in the muzzle.  It rammed OK with no swabbing in between until the last shot #20. that ball went halfway down the tube and locked up.  we ( about 3 of us) rammed on the ramrod and got it down, all was well. it went bang.
 MY flint troubles were another issue, 3 flints to shoot 20 targets, all french amber 3/4".  one broke in the lock, the flint snapped midline across the flint, jammed the frizzen about 1/2" open and dinged up my shiny pan.  I fixed that and the next flint, 1st shot took a chunk out of the center of the leading edge, too big to knap back so onto flint #3 .
 That lasted the last few shots ,chipped a corner and was loose in the jaws after each shot. ugh  grand total 5 outta 20.  should have followed the 6 P's ,  proper planning prevents piss poor performance. 
 are 3/4" the best size  for this lock ??  seems to be too far from the frizzen to me, really hammers these french flints. I can get my finger between the flint edge and the frizzen at half cock.
 
Oh and lets not forget those bear grease patches. I used a wool haversack style bag today, also another change from my usual small leather pouch. couldn't find anything,  and those patches found their way out of the plastic bag and onto and into everything in the bag including my priming horn, short starter, etc. what a mess.  everything was slicker than cat S*&$. The little plunger on my priming horn clogged up so I finished priming from the horn.  (from now on I might add)
 
 Just a fun, miserable, had a great time anyways kinda day. a lot of hard lessons learned today.
 I realize this is all my fault, all of these changes for no reason etc etc.
 I don't feel I can blame the gun, I need to look at these flints closer and shoot more to get settled in on my loads and such.
 I let the pressure of competition and all the changes I made throw me off my game as far a routine goes.
 
 I am going to my room now to think about what I have done and in the future try to make better decisions !
 thanks for sharing in my misery.
Kevin
 
 
 
 
   
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Offline rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7012
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2023, 02:41:43 AM »
Thanks for the report Kevin.  :bl th up
Those amber flints may have had some fractures that were invisible to the naked eye, which caused them to break as you described.
However, the gap between the edge of your flints and the frizzen seems excessive.
Have you tried flipping them over (bevel down) to see if you get less gap?
What did the flint that came with the rifle measure?
I much prefer spit for shooting matches myself, and only use a bear oil / bee's wax mix lube when hunting where few shots will be taken. Spit cuts heavy bore fowling LOTS better/easier than anything else I've tried as a lube.  :bl th up 

I hope your next date with Ginger goes a lot smoother.  :laffing

"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2023, 08:01:52 AM »
 Well after yesterday in ready for a divorce from ginger.
 Not sure a on the flint measurement that broke but it was a standard 3/4" French amber.  I bought a dozen from a well known dealer.
  I did the flint flip, not much change, I have to pinch the flint in the lips of the cock to get it close to the frizzen where it should be.
 I'll be back on the nipple for a while as I try too figure this out.
 Kevin
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2023, 12:56:38 PM »
Maybe try the Black English Flints / Track of the Wolf should have some... They've always had a good reputation.  :shake
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Winter Hawk

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2571
  • Location: Chauncey, OH
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2023, 04:10:50 PM »
This all brings up a question I have had for a l-o-n-g time: what is that a measurement of?  From the Track of the Wolf catalog, it appears that it refers to the width of the flint, not how long it is.  However, other references seem to say it refers to the length.  So I can order 5/8" x 5/8" long or 3/8" x 3/4" long English flints, while the French only have 5/8" x 3/4" for the CVA.  All are listed as 5/8".  Dixie only has the nebulous 5/8", 3/4", 7/8" etc. which seems to be the width.  I've been confused on this since I got my first flintlock 30+ years ago, and am still that way!  Because of this, I buy from Track only since I can at least get flints of a length I can use.   ;banghead;

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2025

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2023, 06:37:54 PM »
I always understood it to mean width.
 
 [ Invalid Attachment ]  
 Here my flints in the lock
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
And my frizzen
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Kevin
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2023, 08:28:16 PM »
To me, it looks like your flint(s) are slamming into the frizzen way to much and not sliding down to give a "more" smooth angle of shaving the metal... You may want to try shimming up the (lower back bottom side) of your flint with some leather to give you a better striking angle.  :shake

As a side note, you may need to have the face of that frizzen dressed... I'm not sure who does this, but I bet someone here knows. Right now you got kind'a of a pot-hole on that frizzen (for lack of a better word).

Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7012
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2023, 09:19:12 PM »
I think I'd contact Kibler and get his thoughts on what's going on.  :bl th up
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2023, 12:05:24 AM »
Thanks for the responses.
 The dings in the frizzen face look worse than they are.
 I'm still learning towards my naivete with this contraption that is causing my problems.
 As I noted, 45 or so shots with original rock and no problems so it's gotta be me .
 I have a current offer for ginger of 40$ from a club member.
 Not ready to go that route just yet. 
Kevin
 
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Online Bigsmoke

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4277
  • TMA: Charter Member #150
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2023, 10:41:19 AM »
Kevin,
I'd go $50 and pay the shipping.
I am sure I could convert it to percussion and save all those problems. :luff: :luff:
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest Up to God.

BigSmoke - John Shorb
TMA Charter Member #150  
NRA - Life
Coeur d'Alene Muzzleloaders - Life

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2023, 11:24:13 AM »
 John,
 Hmmm, 50$ you say... Hmmmm. Let me chew on that.
 The weather is threatening to turn from rain to white this week and I have Friday,Saturday and Sunday to chase elk with a gun so ginger will get to rest while my TC nipple gun comes out of retirement.
 I'll give ginger a try with these English flints in the near future.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
This is the angle of attack , look normal ??
 
Kevin
 
 
 
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Online Nessmuk

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
  • 2019 thru 2024 Postal Match Director
  • TMA Member: TMA Contributing Member
  • Location: OK
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2023, 05:31:34 PM »
Kevin, I'll give you $75, Pay shipping and throw in a can of caps!! I'll even keep her Name!!

Never could resist a bidding war!!
I'm  not  H/C or P/C or even a particularly  good shot but I have a hell of a good time!

Dedicated to the TMA.
Join us, Friend

Online KDubs

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1015
  • Location: Idaho
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2023, 05:55:39 PM »
Well the price is going up, I tried out the English flint today , 10 shots, all went bang on the first try , 2f in the pan from the horn.
 Interesting thing though
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
I had the red thing experience again. 
 But no rock issues, I did notice in the original pic of my lock
 [ Invalid Attachment ]  bevel down
 I had my replacement French flints bevel up .
 Maybe my issue.
 Kevin
TMA Idaho rep.
USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Offline No Powder

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
  • TMA Exp. Date; June 26, 2025
  • TMA: Contributing Member
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member #75
  • Location: PA
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2023, 06:52:59 PM »
Kevin, I'm not interested in bidding on that long barreled Kibler. I've wiped out too many ceiling lights, vases, and lamps with them long barrels. But I will bid on that TC Hawken. Not nearly as dangerous.


TMA Exp. Date; June 26, 2025

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: update on my kibler experience
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2023, 08:15:01 PM »
John,
 Hmmm, 50$ you say... Hmmmm. Let me chew on that.
 The weather is threatening to turn from rain to white this week and I have Friday,Saturday and Sunday to chase elk with a gun so ginger will get to rest while my TC nipple gun comes out of retirement.
 I'll give ginger a try with these English flints in the near future.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
This is the angle of attack , look normal ??
 
Kevin

That's not bad Kevin, as over time (usage) the leading edge of that flint (any flint) will lower the impact on the Frizzen face giving it a nice shave of metal sparks as the flint gets dressed down / back, through usage. Then you can move it (the flint) forward and do it all over again.
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska