Your TMA Officers and Board of Directors
Support the TMA! ~ Traditional Muzzleloaders ~ The TMA is here for YOU!
*** JOIN in on the TMA 2024 POSTAL MATCH *** it's FREE for ALL !

For TMA related products, please check out the new TMA Store !

The Flintlock Paper

*** Folk Firearms Collective Videos ***



Author Topic: *TMA SIGHT RULES*  (Read 14073 times)

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
*TMA SIGHT RULES*
« on: February 28, 2006, 10:51:25 PM »
SEE; 5.a., b., & c., FOR MONTHLY POSTAL SHOOT SIGHT RULES...

TMA MATCHES & SPECIALTY MATCHES
FOR POST 1840 COMPETITIONS
Also
Traditional Style Muzzleloading Rifles,
Sight & Ammunition Issues
Post 1840

1. Traditional Style Muzzleloading Rifles;

a. A traditional style muzzleloading rifle is any muzzleloader made in the style and spirit of a
traditional muzzleloader, prior to 1900. This includes the wood stocked, side lock
muzzleloaders, made by those companies such as; Thompson Center, Lyman, InvestArms,
Pedersoli, Traditions, CVA, and so forth, and known as "Production" Muzzleloaders,,, using
flint, percussion or musket cap side ignition only.

b. Originals, custom made, and replica, "Production" muzzleloaders are welcome in the TMA
with regard to the spirit of/in which they were made. TMA does not recognize plastic stocks,
stainless steel barrels, or inline ignitions...

2. Ammuntion;

a. TMA recommends using, real black powder such as Goex, that may be graded 1fg up to 7fg... We
also recognize the use of replica black powders such as Pyrodex, as the availibility for real black
powder may be limited to some... NEVER USE SMOKELESS POWDER, REGARDLESS IF IT IS
BLACK IN COLOR!!!

d. We recommend using traditional style projectiles such as the patched lead roundball, and
projectiles that were available prior to 1900... However, we do recognize the use of the,
TC Maxi, Hornady Great Plains Bullet, Ballets, R.E.A.L. Bullets, and so forth, provided that
these projectiles are pure lead. WE DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY MODERN SABOT, OR PLASTIC
BOTTOM BULLETS THAT MAY ALSO INCLUDE COPPER BULLETS...



3. Fixed Sights;

a. Fixed Sights are "Open Iron Sights" that can not be adjusted. They are either soldered, screwed,
or dovetailed into the the barrel of a traditional style muzzleloader. Both front and rear sight, or
a combination of the two installing techniques...

b. Fixed Sights may not be of, fiber optic design... They must be made of metal... Smoking, or
painting a front sight blade in flat black is allowed for the purpose of dulling a silver or shiny
brass front sight to help reduce glare...

c. This sight system is usable in all matches without any special rules regarding these sights.

4. Adjustable Sights;

a. Adjustable sights are attached to the barrel of a traditional style muzzleloader, much in the same
manner as outlined in the above, 2.a. They do have the ability to be adjusted for windage and
elevation.

b. Adjustable Sights may not have any highlighting marks of, paint, fingernail polish, or fiber optics
on them. They must be made of metal, in their natural state, or factory stock finish.

c. Adjustable Sights must be adjusted prior to shooting the scoring match, and may not be adjusted
at any time during the course of the shooting days record fire...

d. This sight system may be subject to "Special Rules", for "Special Matches", where adjusting your
sights may be permitted in a course of fire. Unless 4.d., is specifically call for,,, 4.a., b., & c., will
be used...

5. Hooded Front Sights & Shaders;

a. Some "Specialty" matches will allow the use of hooded front sights (blade or pin), and shaders.

b. Shaders are usually found over the rear sight, but some may stretch the length of the barrel to
cover both the front and rear sight. Shaders may, or may not be permanently attached to a rifle
barrel, however this is at the discretion of the rifle owner as the rifle in question may have been
built for a single purpose event or match.

c. Hoods and shaders should be made from material that was available prior to, or in the year, 1900.

5.e... The AMS Sight Rule will apply as of April 1, 2019... AMS (Any Metallic Sight) may be used in
our Postal Matches to include (Ghost Ring, Peep/Aperture Sights, and Sight Shade) No Sight
Magnification Device Is Allowed.


6. Vernier Sights;

a. Vernier sights (peep sights) have been used in long range shooting matches long before the Irish
Team came to Creedmoor with their Rigby muzzleloading Rifles. They are acceptable in some
of the "Specialty" Matches such as, Cross Sticks, Creedmoor, Metal Silhouette, type matches.

b. Other applications of these sights may be used for unlimited match ideas at the discretion of the
events' host.

Specialty Matches

1. TMA Chunk Gun Match;

a. This match is normally shot with fixed sights, and the use of shaders... There is no weight limit
to the muzzleloading rifle being used.

b. A typical Chunk Gun Match, also known as an, "Over The Log Match", is shot from the prone
position, 60 yards from the target which is a simple "X" (See TMA Target - OTLX) for an example.

c. If the competitior does not wish to shoot from the prone position, they are normally allowed to
shoot at their "X" target - offhand from forty yards...

d. It is at the discretion of the event holder, whether or not to allow muzzleloaders with adjustable
sights in the match. If so, it should be understood that adjustable sights can not be adjusted at
anytime during one of these matches.

e. Usually in a, "Chunk Gun Match", a spotter target is posted over record target and shot to get
your point of impact to strike center "X"...

2. Cross Stick Match;

a. Cross Stick Matches are shot from any range deemed by the event host... Sight rules to allow
adjustable sights is left to the discretion of the host. The same applies to the use of other sights,
and the use of shaders, which does not exclude the Vernier Peep Sights...

3. Long Rang Matches;

a. Vernier sights are normally used in these matches as the range may be anywhere from 100 yards
to 1000 yards...

4. Bench Matches;

a. The sight usage is determined by the host of these events.

5. TMA Postal Matches;

a. The use of fixed or adjustable sights may be used, but the adjustable sights may not be adjusted
once you start your record fire...

b. Sights should be open iron sights, and the honor system is in effect.

c. Any sight changes will be posted with the TMA Postal Match Schedule.

e. The AMS Sight Rule will apply as of April 1, 2019... AMS (Any Metallic Sight) may be used in our Postal
Matches to include (Ghost Ring, Peep/Aperture Sights, and Sight Shade) No Sight Magnification Device Is
Allowed.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 10:29:09 AM by Ohio Joe »
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Cottonwood

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
  • Flathead Valley Montana
  • Location: MT
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 04:51:45 PM »
I'm good
Flathead Valley Muzzleloaders

A .54 cal, will kill anything on 4 legs in North America.

Offline rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7012
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 06:13:43 PM »
Thanks Joe,.... all the regs sound very reasonable.  :shake :toast :hairy
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 10:08:27 AM »
2019 was our first year of using the; 5.e... Rule

5.e... The AMS Sight Rule will apply as of April 1, 2019... AMS (Any Metallic Sight) may be used in
our Postal Matches to include (Ghost Ring, Peep/Aperture Sights, and Sight Shade) No Sight
Magnification Device Is Allowed.


I don't know if anyone took advantage of it? I know I didn't as my eyesight is still fairly cooperative - but with age it could change and as of late, I've noticed it changing more...  :shake
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7012
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 10:44:00 AM »
I noticed that rule, but haven't taken advantage of it YET.  :toast :bl th up
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7342
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 01:18:44 PM »
I have one Rifle with a Lyman 57, on a fast-twist used one time for "chunkin" and it worked pretty good out to 200 yds,  several years back
The Lyman 57 is on my old modified Renegade with 4 barrels, one barrel being a GM Fast Twist of 1:26 which is the barrel I used in that Chunkin.
( I did draw a crowd at the public range when I was zeroing at 200 for the Chunk Match....and they did manage to burn-up about a dozen paper patch rounds.)

The beauty of the Lyman 57 is the sight itself pops on and off with the push of a button, leaving the barrels with rear and front sights, while the mount remains on the gun.
I have also shot the Lyman 57 with the aperture removed and it "might" help a bit as a ghost ring, but when you wear glasses anyway, you are at the mercy of your prescription, and there's nothing short of a scope that's going to really help all that nonsense....
On another note: as far as Chunkin, i didn't win anything, didn't even place, but shootin 14" X 14" Cedar shingles at 200 yards is a hoot, never mind there is actually an "x" on them.

I've been told this little get together has now moved their targets to 100 yds in order to "promote" their little outing...in their game, the smaller the groups the bigger the prize.
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 02:39:29 PM »
Russ, I got a Lyman 57 Aperture set-up on my .50 cal X-Stick Rifle with a 1-1/8" x 36" GM Barrel for 50 and 100 yard shooting when at our Nebraska State ML Annual Shoot - near Cairo, Nebraska... Certainly not an offhand rifle, but she'll Medal in the top three at 100 yards. I need to get back into this X-Stick Shooting, I've always enjoyed it... 'course, I was younger then... It's not so much the eyes with the peep as it is with the muscles, all that up and down...
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Maven

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
  • TMA: Supporting Member #778
  • TMA Member: Expiration date; 10/21/2021
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2019, 06:28:22 PM »
"It's not so much the eyes with the peep as it is with the muscles, all that up and down...."  Ohio Joe

Ain't it the truth, Joe! :laffing  Not so many years ago the ALR Forum used to sponsor an "over-the'log" match of sorts, but as you said, all that up and down wasn't popular with the participants.  Needless to say, they don't offer it any longer.

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2019, 08:03:27 PM »
"It's not so much the eyes with the peep as it is with the muscles, all that up and down...."  Ohio Joe

Ain't it the truth, Joe! :laffing  Not so many years ago the ALR Forum used to sponsor an "over-the'log" match of sorts, but as you said, all that up and down wasn't popular with the participants.  Needless to say, they don't offer it any longer.

I remember that, Maven... Daryl (up in Canada) if I recall, was the one holding that once a year...

I did get in it... One year, If I recall, I paid $10.00 to get in it and I won $5.00... :laffing  Currency exchange I reckon...  :laffing

I'm not sure which one is easier, getting up off one's butt from the x-sticks, or getting up off one's belly from the chunk - and both with a bit of satisfaction that we could at least get down the first time to get that rifle over the log, but that 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th times sure played with our muscles with that down and up...  :laffing   
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7342
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 09:15:37 PM »
Joe, after I posted the above post I suddenly remembered having told you about that match....I think.
Any who, I was pleased as punch just to hit the board!

BTW: You're both spot on about that "gettin up and down" to load! I was actually thankful it was only a 10 shot event, but I was bit aggravated about the 3 minutes to fire after you're in position. After about the 3rd or 4th shot I realized those old farts were just as bad off as myself and used that extra time as "break time".
 :lol sign
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2019, 09:35:35 PM »
I hate to even share this next bit of info, but I will...

Two days ago my ol' huntin' buddy from years back, we got together out at our local Range just to do some 22lr plinking off the bench from 50 and 100 yards... My shoulder and neck area has been stiff and sore since then... I think I'd of been better off to have taken one of my muzzleloader's and shot offhand... I don't think my muscles have muscle memory anymore...  :P

Done in by the massive recoil of the .22lr subsonic ammo... What a world... :laffing

Russ, I do recall you mentioning that match.  One must use those 3 minutes wisely,,, nap 2-1/2 minutes - then wake up and shoot... :lol sign
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Winter Hawk

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2571
  • Location: Chauncey, OH
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2019, 08:57:29 PM »
Joe, that reminds me of w-a-y back, when I was in Jr. High, the school (which went 1st through 12th grade) had a ROTC program, with a rifle range and an armory.  The Master Sergeant who taught military science gave a small group of us a riflery class after school.  We would check out a M1 and practice dry firing; the first week it was prone, the second sitting, the third kneeling and finally off hand.  Then we all gathered at the range on a Saturday to fire real ammo - with single shot .22s!  :o  We were each given one box of rounds to expend from the prone position.  The following day my buddy who got me into the program was bragging of how he had a big bruise on his shoulder from the recoil!  :Doh!
 :lol sign

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2025

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2019, 10:03:19 PM »
 :lol sign That's a good one Kees!  :laffing

I think my neck and shoulders soreness came from not shooting off a bench rest but for one time in the last 3 years, and then here I am shooting off one in cool weather conditions. Using those muscles in a shooting position I haven't used in a long time - which the cooler weather didn't help, and the rest position really didn't fit me... Next time I'll know better and take my own (home made bench & rest)...  :) :bl th up   
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7342
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2019, 10:37:17 PM »
Joe, I got up off the floor of the shop today, all by myself!
No I didn't fall again.... :toast
A box of Canning Jars got pushed off a shelf and I did my duty of cleaning it up, and hiding the evidence.
(SWMBO does not take kindly to me bustin up her canning stuff.)
 :yessir:
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: *TMA SIGHT RULES*
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2019, 07:33:47 AM »
Joe, I got up off the floor of the shop today, all by myself!
No I didn't fall again.... :toast
A box of Canning Jars got pushed off a shelf and I did my duty of cleaning it up, and hiding the evidence.
(SWMBO does not take kindly to me bustin up her canning stuff.)
 :yessir:

 :lol sign

Just goes to show you can't keep a good man down! Especially when there's a fear factor involved... :laffing  :hairy
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska