Building a new Hawken, advice?

[mark davidson]

OK, I think I am going to have built a new Hawken.  The Hawken speaks to me and to me just symbolizes what I feel and want from a traditional MLer.  Now, help me with some details. I am for sure going to do .62 cal. ; is that somehow feaux pas in a Hawken?  I am going full stock and flintlock...are those OK?  Will a hooked breech or regular breech be more in keeping with the Hawken tradition?  How about regular pins versus wedges to hold the barrel in place?  How about barrel length....I am leaning toward 36" or maybe 38"?  My main interest is HUNTING and slamming a bunch of white tail deer and maybe an elk but mostly deer and hogs.  Traditionalism is not the be-all and end-all but I want the rifle to be pretty close to "correct" and not like an el-camino and not really in the proper category. Please advise.  Thanks in advance!

[cb]

recommendation - see http://www.donstith.com Don is one of the world's most knowledgable men on real Hawken,s and his kits are all based on his own originals.....

I am for sure going to do .62 cal. ; is that somehow feaux pas in a Hawken?
   On the large size but not unknown....

I am going full stock and flintlock...are those OK?
     Yes there were many fullstock Hawkens made. Flintlocks - none currently in existence (a couple of conversion sthought do exist), but the time period in which they were made says there was good possibility - lock recommendation - Chambers LATE Ketland

Will a hooked breech or regular breech be more in keeping with the Hawken tradition?
       For a fullstock flint - standard breeching

How about regular pins versus wedges to hold the barrel in place?
       Wedges definitely

How about barrel length....I am leaning toward 36" or maybe 38"?      
Either length - tapered or swamped, straight barrels would make the gun barrel heavy and only a VERY few Hawkens have them, the majority by far were tapered, but several originals exist with swamped barrels

FWIW - Hawkens are a first love for me, been studying them since I saw my first one in a magazine in 1962, still have that magazine.

If you're interested I can post some pics later.......

[mark davidson]

Chuck,
    Thanks so much for the time you took to provide such detailed answers. Sounds like I might be on the right track after all. I cannot explain my fascination with the Hawken. I suppose it has been an obsession since I first saw Jerimiah Johnson with Robert Redford. I still watch that movie several times a winter. My first "traditional" black powder gun was a typical TC factory Hawken model in .50 cal and I took a few deer with it and got the fever for a sho-nuff custom gun. I had built a Virginia rifle (long rifle) and have kinda wished ever since I had gone the Hawken route so now that is what I will do. I have really enjoyed the flintlock over percussion and have learned to shoot it well so I want to stick with flint just for the sake of novelty and fun. I will check out the website you mentioned. Thanks again.

[BEAVERMAN]

Mark try this link.
  http://www.thehawkenshop.com/

[Bigsmoke]

John Baird wrote a book on the Hawken Rifle several years ago.  I forget what the title is, but I am sure you can Google it or look on Amazon.com  It's a pretty good look at a lot of different rifles.

[mark davidson]

Thanks for the link and the book. My dang computer filter won't allow me to access the link but I will look into getting the book. I just thought I would run the whole project idea by you all and see if I was kinda barking up the right tree to begin with or not.

[rweber]

Mark, I built a non traditional Hawken, patent breech, full stock, 32" barrel though, almost like you describe and in a word it was HEAVY. It was a 15/16" barrel for the 36 cal. and it was just a club in my mind, balanced well enough and swung ok, but it was a CHUNK in my hands and I was happy to get rid of it when I could.

far too heavy to enjoy hunting with for me personally, everyone has their own ideals ofcourse.

Just a devil's advocate approach, if it is possible try to swing by a shop like Tip Curtis' where maybe you can piece a gun together and get a feel for what you have in mind before ordering parts and being commited.
Now in a 1" barrel a 62 cal might not be that heavy, I'd still try to swing one and see what it feels like at first blush.

I've built more 'modern' repro flinters that end up being clubs than I can shake a stick at, a neat idea is sometimes a real good pry bar in the end. LOL.

[rollingb]

Mark,... I've built several fullstock Early Hawkens from parts from Track of the Wolf.

First one I built was a .58, with 1" x 42" Green Mountain barrel,... shot great, but was a little "muzzle heavy".

Next one was a .54, with 15/16" x 36" Green Mountain barrel,... good carry'n rifle and "shot like a house'a fire". (My friend SSE now has that rifle  

[Wyoming Mike]

I built a full stock flint Hawken a couple of years ago.  I had the barrel and lock for about 20 years and finally decided to get the rest of the parts and do it.

I built mine in .58 with a 1" x 36" GM barrel with a hooked breech and captured keys.  I built it with an L&R Large English lock.  If I was buying the lock these days, I would use the Chambers Late Ketland.  I shoot a lot of competition and use the rifle in big bore competition all the time.  It has done well by me over the last two years.

I call it a fantasy piece because no flint Hawken mountain type rifles have ever been found but as cb said there are a few that looked like they have been converted from flint.  Until and actual flint mountain model shows up I'll still consider it a fantasy piece.  I doubt anyone would complain about it but the most anal thread counter if I took it to a rendezvous.

[mark davidson]

Thanks again for the info. It seems that the consensus is that a flintlock Hawken is likely NOT in keeping with "correctness" but still a really cool rifle.  The rifle I have is muzzle heavy and unwieldy in the woods. It is 15/16ths and 42" long in .54 cal. Benched, it is a legitimate inch rifle with prb at 100 yards. It shoots well standing freestyle but cannot be held for long before the weight causes a wobble to set in for me. I love hunting with it but it is not all that "handy" in the woods. My new project is for sure going to be shorter and with a swamped barrel, likely 36" and no more than 38". I have never been to a rendezvous so I do not yet understand the concept of a new shooter being scolded for not being "correct enough."  If that scenario is likely then I likely should just avoid rendevous. I love to compete and have shot competitively for over 20 years all over the county so I would like to try my hand at MLer shoots but I don't want to set myself up to have to listen to a bunch of crap rhetoric about my toys.

[rollingb]

Mark,... just to clear up (what may be a little) confusion, a fullstock Hawken with a flint lock, won't get anybody holler'n at you at any rendezvous that I'm aware of.

Also, the fullstock is the forerunner of the "late(r)" plains/mountain style halfstock J&S Hawken (which I've never seen turned away at rendezvous either, even if they were wearing a flint lock).  

HTH

[mark davidson]

Rollingb,
   Thanks for the clarification; as I said, I have never been to a rendezvous at all. I have heard some gossip though about such things as we mentioned. I am sure it is mostly good people all assembled for the common good of having a good time. I have also heard of folks being asked to break camp and move it to another area cause some of their stuff was not period correct or was too  modern. I figure I need to do my homework out of respect before I go to one with the wrong stuff. I just want to shoot really and see the cool stuff and learn the ropes so to speak.

[BEAVERMAN]

Mark, Ive held and inspected a full stock 54 cal J&S hawken St. Louis original , belongs to a collector in Chicago ( an old guy whos been collecting originals since the mid 1940's) high school freind of my fathers, who has amassed a fantastic collection of original Mls from Becks, to Baker shotguns to Shutzen rifles, this piece does not have a vent liner but an original drilled touch hole, very cool rifle, wish I had taken my camera. go ahead and build what you want!

[jbullard1]

Rollingb,
   Thanks for the clarification; as I said, I have never been to a rendezvous at all. I have heard some gossip though about such things as we mentioned. I am sure it is mostly good people all assembled for the common good of having a good time. I have also heard of folks being asked to break camp and move it to another area cause some of their stuff was not period correct or was too  modern. I figure I need to do my homework out of respect before I go to one with the wrong stuff. I just want to shoot really and see the cool stuff and learn the ropes so to speak.

Mark
Check us out at the next Hatchie Run event in late March
I don't think you will get turned away; we are there to have fun and enjoy shooting
Jerry

[mark davidson]

Now Beaverman, You've done gone and made me a might jealous with your story!!! You got to hold a sho-nuff original full stock flintlock Hawken!!!!  I too wish you had taken a picture!!!

Jerry,
   I may very well try to make that Hatchie Run event. It is close to home and I am sure if there is stuff for sale I can find something I need like a new hatchet!!  It will all depend on exactly how well the smallmouth are biting on Pickwick about then!! :-)