Traditional Muzzleloading Association

The Center of Camp => People of the Times => Topic started by: Wife ofTheWeavingWelshman on November 17, 2009, 04:05:30 PM

Title: The Longhunter Teardrop Heart
Post by: Wife ofTheWeavingWelshman on November 17, 2009, 04:05:30 PM

Hi Guys,

Can any of you tell me the why and the when of the teardrop heart being the symbol of the Longhunter?

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Post by: Mitch on November 17, 2009, 05:45:13 PM

First time I've ever heard that one....when/where did you hear/read that? No "symbol" accredited to longhunters historically that I'm aware of in any way.

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on November 20, 2009, 10:08:46 PM

I believe the "teardrop" heart symbolizes the weeping heart of Christ.

LD

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Post by: R.M. on November 20, 2009, 10:14:26 PM

This is what I come up with from http://www.threefeatherspewter.com/Celtic%20Items.htm (http://www.threefeatherspewter.com/Celtic%20Items.htm)

The Weeping Heart design is of Scottish origin.  It comes from a brooch that was two hearts intertwined and was used in betrothals.  When the Scots came to the New World, before leaving their loved one behind, the brooch would be broken into two pieces.  The gent would wear one piece and she would wear the other.  Because they were apart, it was called a Weeping Heart.

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Post by: Wife ofTheWeavingWelshman on November 21, 2009, 01:21:16 AM

Hi guys thank for your post.  That isn't it.  Mt. Top has a bag with a teardrop heart on it and our friend that doesn't rondy any more but did for over 20 years mentioned it also.......so I was just wondering.
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Post by: Eric S Campbell on November 21, 2009, 08:38:46 AM

Just something made up in the 70s I suspect.

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Post by: Eric S Campbell on November 21, 2009, 08:39:07 AM

Just something made up in the 70s I suspect.

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Post by: Bigsmoke on November 21, 2009, 11:31:18 AM

Hi there, WOTWW,

I really don't know from anything about the lore of the weeping heart or the mildly sniveling heart either, for that matter.
But that pouch, I do know.

At some point in time, we decided that we needed to produce a fancy, "Sunday go to meeting" pouch and that is what we came up with.  The only real significance of the heart is that considering it was made in Coeur d'Alene (coeur = heart) we included that piercing and it was the most pleasant heart shape we knew of.  Much better than a Valentine heart.  And, of course, we called it the Coeur d'Alene bag.

We also offered that bag in a couple of different variations.  Totally plain with no piercings on the flap, just the scallops, just the heart, and both heart and scallops.  I also came up with "John's special bag" which included an extra divider inside with more pockets on it.  That made for several thicknesses of leather and the ladies we had sewing really didn't care for that at all.

I think we did a star instead of the heart and even did some custom versions with buffalo and other cutouts.

To this day, I believe that was the finest bag we ever produced and when I take my pouch out my breath still catches, just a bit.  It is a wee bit fancy for my taste, but still...

That's about all there is to it.  We did take the drawing of the heart from some drawings we found somewhere in one book or another.  The book is in a box along with many others in our storage locker in Coeur d'Alene.  Wish there was a more fascinating story behind all that, but alas, there isn't.

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Post by: woodman on November 21, 2009, 11:48:13 AM

The weeping heart is a design that goes back centuries. Origanly used as apiercing on war axes with the tip turned to the right signifiing the fith wound of Christ. In later years the tip was turned to the left signifing the weeping of a womans heart whose husband had been killed in battle.
  In the book Firearms, traps, and tools of the Mountain Man , there are several line drawings of origanal trade hawks with the weeping heart design pierced thru them.
  Woodman

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on November 21, 2009, 12:13:47 PM

Well if the website is referring to the luckenbooth, they are topped by a crown and often show a pair of hearts, most are not weeping, and there is no reference to the brooch being broken in two, for if it is broken or cut, it surely does not resemble a weeping heart.  Luckenbooth's were a traditional bridal or christening gift.  Many extant examples are a single, not weeping, heart.  Believed to ward of the evil eye or to protect a young infant from Faeries.  

LD

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Post by: Two Steps on November 21, 2009, 12:19:49 PM

Madison Grant, in "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" guesstimates that overlays and cutouts began to appear around 1820 or so....and fell into disuse around the second quarter of that century.
Al

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Post by: Wife ofTheWeavingWelshman on November 21, 2009, 01:44:31 PM

Hey thanks guys, lots of info.

John good to know you started it here.     Thanks for your history.