Traditional Muzzleloading Association

The Center of Camp => People of the Times => Topic started by: vthompson on December 09, 2009, 11:39:23 AM

Title: How did they do it?
Post by: vthompson on December 09, 2009, 11:39:23 AM: I would like some of your thoughts on how the mountain men did something. I am always looking for something to get into around the house and every now and then I get puzzled about a certain thing.
My question to you is this: How did the mountain men make fire with a flint & steel without using charcloth? I have tried dried grass, dried pine needles,straw, milk weed pods with the fluffy stuff inside, cotton balls, dryer lint, cattail pods fluffed up and all that I get is nothing. I can't get anything to take a spark long enough to blow on it.
I can do great with charcloth but without it I can't get one going. I have read in some books that they didn't have the spare cloth to make charcloth with so I have wondered how they did it.
If you know their secret, let me know. I would appreciate it.
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Post by: woodman on December 09, 2009, 11:57:17 AM: Try charing in your fire a little dry punky wood and keep it in a tin. You have to have some kind of Charcoal to catch the spark since we don't have tinder fungus out here in the Rocky Mountains.
Don't know for sure about them not having the clothe. There was a ton of cloth traded at rendezvous. What they didn't have is a tin like we use today with a crimped bottom rather than soldered(spelling) for charring cloth in like we do today.
Just MHOP,
Woodman
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Post by: Sir Michael on December 09, 2009, 01:37:15 PM: You might find this of interest.

[albumimg:39f35h0m]4512[/albumimg:39f35h0m]

Description
This is a typical domestic English tinder box set for household use. It comprises a circular (115mm diameter) japanned tin tinder box with tea-cup handle at the side and candle socket on the lid; a charred rag tinder, damper, flint and steel (the latter converted from an old file). Before the introduction of matches, tinder boxes were used to light fires and lamps. The flint (or striker) was struck against a piece of metal (the steel) to create sparks and ignite dry material, (the tinder).

This comes from the Science Museum / Science & Society WEB page.
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Post by: cb on December 09, 2009, 02:34:38 PM: Quote
Don't know for sure about them not having the clothe. There was a ton of cloth traded at rendezvous. What they didn't have is a tin like we use today with a crimped bottom rather than soldered(spelling) for charring cloth in like we do today.
As Mike noted lots of cloth around during the period, including the shirts commonly worn and when worn out, plus what did they use seem to forget- what did they use for patching.
After almost 50 years studying the subject of the RMFT I have come to believe that the "spare" cloth argument is more of a re-enactorism than historically sound.
Also as Mike noted punk (charred wood, etc) as it was often known is another documented option....another option - rub some gun powder into a piece of cloth - it's documented and works - you can even just stick it in the pan of your flinter and start it that way.

As to a dedicated tin you don't really need one -
1) I've made char cloth in the standard tin pots available
2) Made it by wrapping the cloth around a stick and charring it carefully - if/when it ignites just wrap a piece of leather around it to put out any flames.......
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Post by: jbullard1 on December 09, 2009, 04:01:28 PM: This could get very interesting: Yes char cloth is easy to make if you have a fire but suppose something happened and you have no char, all you have is a burning glass, flint, steel and mother nature and that's it!
Plus it is cold.
Fire building 101 Is in session
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Post by: woodman on December 09, 2009, 04:10:58 PM: With a burning glass you don't need char to get a fire going.
Woodman
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Post by: Shadow Hawk on December 09, 2009, 08:27:42 PM: another trick is to get very dry grass,ceder bark, pine needles, or other simular debrie, and rub it or grind it with a rock till you have a fine powder. pile some of that with small bits of simuliar tender and strike in to that. the powder helps to catch the spark.
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Post by: vthompson on December 09, 2009, 08:47:55 PM: I wanted to thank everyone for their answers and opinions. I found all of them very interresting. I am going to try some of the methods mentioned and see if I can make fire with them.
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Post by: Sir Michael on December 10, 2009, 02:48:31 AM: I also found this in A Dictionary of the English Language published in London in 1838:

Tinder - Rags when burnt; anything eminently inflammable placed to catch fire.

This is a little hard to read but it is from a military handbook published in 1811.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0NcvAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA462&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3vyfNAUwnKBbuHZF7j0-iVNQlRNw&ci=508%2C1062%2C434%2C355&edge=0
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Post by: vthompson on December 10, 2009, 01:25:44 PM: Thanks Sir Michael for your post. I found the discription from the military handbook interresting.