Traditional Muzzleloading Association
The Den - Members' Library => Resources => Topic started by: Sir Michael on December 14, 2009, 06:59:22 PM
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The following chart identifies the sizes and weights of round balls based on the number of balls per pound or gauge from 1 to 250. It also has a column showing the diameters of the balls as published in 1822 for those interested in historical data. The lines of bold data indicate ball sizes currently commercially available.
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4551[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4552[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4553[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4554[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4555[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
[albumimg:3l6qtrv3]4556[/albumimg:3l6qtrv3]
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None of the original attachments would open for me. Here is a chart from Ned Roberts' "The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle":
~WH~
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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:hairy
Many folks confuse the remarks made by Jeremiah Johnson, when describing the rife he felt he needed for the Mountains as being .30 caliber, when he was actually saying "30 to the pound".
I've never been sure he actually knew what all that meant, but it was easily misinterpreted by the unwashed of modern day folks.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... that is kinda interesting, inasmuch as what is stated there " might" be somewhere near correct, but not sure if it is. The lesser listed ball diameters I readily confess I know not about. But, I do have a tad bit of experience with the larger and definitely more exciting bore sizes.
IIRC, the 4 bore rifle should have a bore size of 1.05" +/-. He doesn't even get to that, but instead starts at 5 bore, which he lists as 1.15". The 4 bore barrels of which I am most familiar with as made by Joe Williams of Oregon Barrel Company, seemed to really like a .980" ball. I seem to recall that I had been using a .990 ball but experienced a lot of difficulty loading, so I dropped down to .980 and life was much better. Remember also that "back in the day" bore size was subjective. Turner Kirkland (of Dixie Gun Works) referred to his double rifle as a 4 bore, but was much closer to a 6 bore in actual size. I think I miked the muzzle at about .890" See what I mean?
Going to bore size weight, (remember these numbers are pulled out of long term memory), I seem to recall that the .980 ball I used weighed in at approximately 1,450 grains, which when divided into 7,000 gives an answer of 4.827, which rounded would equal a 5 bore size by weight. So, I think the 1.15" diameter is way off.
And I am suspicious also about the rest of his large bore supposed sizes. I don't accept the chart as correct. And that is the kind of mood I am in today.
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:hairy
Many folks confuse the remarks made by Jeremiah Johnson, when describing the rife he felt he needed for the Mountains as being .30 caliber, when he was actually saying "30 to the pound".
I've never been sure he actually knew what all that meant, but it was easily misinterpreted by the unwashed of modern day folks.
Russ, I couldn't agree with you more. But it came out of Hollywood, so it must be the truth.
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:lol sign. :lol sign
John, I'm certainly not much on the bigger bores but I did get to shoot a Rifled .72 cal IIRC, that belongs to a feller here in Moses Lake.
A rifle that once belonged to you, in fact, and it was indeed a lovely rifle that shot "like a house on fire"...
I could have easily won that Woods Walk had I been shooting his gun, as the hold and balance, even the recoil, was mind blowing to say the least! instead I chose the Poker Hand shoot and Lady luck whooped my old butt proper.
(May God forgive me for forgetting his name but it has been years ago, while I admit the fact that he was one of the nicest people I have met in my life, I must admit that I am thoroughly embarrassed by the fact that my mind went blank with his name.)
:Doh!
Still yet, when you speak of 4 and 6 bore, shooting a ball that weighs half-a-pound.
I have to wonder what you shoulder looks like in X-rays...I can understand a shot or two for grins and giggles, however, in my mind I can see, and well understand, why God created Gun Bearers to pack that puppy around fer ya.
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And that nice feller's name is Mike Prior. Great guy, but not much on correspondence.
I have visited him a time or two in the intervening years and each time, I was able to visit with that wonderful 12 bore. I believe if his wife had not bought the rifle for his birthday, I would still have it in my possession. We met at the Moscow RDV maybe in 2004 or so and he did allow me to shoot it for the trail walk. I think I maybe got 2nd place with it. Not bad.
I went on line and looked up a little info on the 4 bores and this is what I found. From the various reading I have done, I cannot find fault with the info contained. Check it out, it's a good read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_bore
In reading Memories of an Elephant Hunter by Finaughty, I recall on one of his last horseback hunts he mentioned that he had been talked into using one of those new fangled suppository rifles in 12 bore and he absolutely hated it. It didn't hold right and there was entirely too much recoil. Imagine that, from a fellow who had been shooting a 4 bore muzzleloader for the last maybe 20 years. A 12 bore (.72 caliber)kicked too much. I don't recall if it was loaded with a round ball or a conical bullet. If a conical, I can understand. Made a 12 bore once with 1:28 twist for a fellow who wanted to shoot conicals with it. I think the bullet weighed somewhere in the 1,200 grain area, and it was flat painful to pull the trigger on that. Shooting it from a bench, I think it gave me a slight concussion.
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:lol sign. :lol sign
John, I'm certainly not much on the bigger bores but I did get to shoot a Rifled .72 cal IIRC, that belongs to a feller here in Moses Lake.
A rifle that once belonged to you, in fact, and it was indeed a lovely rifle that shot "like a house on fire"...
I could have easily won that Woods Walk had I been shooting his gun, as the hold and balance, even the recoil, was mind blowing to say the least! instead I chose the Poker Hand shoot and Lady luck whooped my old butt proper.
(May God forgive me for forgetting his name but it has been years ago, while I admit the fact that he was one of the nicest people I have met in my life, I must admit that I am thoroughly embarrassed by the fact that my mind went blank with his name.)
:Doh!
Still yet, when you speak of 4 and 6 bore, shooting a ball that weighs half-a-pound.
I have to wonder what you shoulder looks like in X-rays...I can understand a shot or two for grins and giggles, however, in my mind I can see, and well understand, why God created Gun Bearers to pack that puppy around fer ya.
I built a rifled .75 caliber flinter for a fella when I lived in Alaska, and watched him shoot a big bull caribou with it.
Gene shot the bull "head on" in the chest as it was walking towards us (at about 50 yds.),... after the shot the bull backed up about one step and sat down (like a dog), then simply fell over sideways.
Pretty impressive! :applaud :toast
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Here's another take on Winter Hawk's chart: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/roundball.htm?v1=.495&v2=2876.1 The Beartooth RB calculator allows you enter both actual RB diameter and alloy in order to determine weight. Moreover, if you know the exact weight of the RB, you can make an educated guess as to the alloy composition, and possibly diameter, i.e., in the absence of a micrometer.
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:hairy
Many folks confuse the remarks made by Jeremiah Johnson, when describing the rife he felt he needed for the Mountains as being .30 caliber, when he was actually saying "30 to the pound".
I've never been sure he actually knew what all that meant, but it was easily misinterpreted by the unwashed of modern day folks.
Russ, I couldn't agree with you more. But it came out of Hollywood, so it must be the truth.
It's difficult to make any sense of Johnson's "30 caliber Hawken" But Hawken did make squirrel rifles for local sportsmen. Those were rather light and had a single wedge key. Could have been that was the only finished rifle available on short notice. Could also be someone misunderstood 30 bore to be 30 caliber. We will never know.