Post by: Puffer on January 16, 2006, 03:47:24 PM
http://www.northwestjournal.ca/charactr.html (http://www.northwestjournal.ca/charactr.html)
Puffer
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 16, 2006, 04:57:17 PM
Post by: Captchee on January 24, 2006, 07:42:06 PM
welcome M katona
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2006, 09:09:38 PM
Quote from: "Puffer"
Here is a site, you might find interesting
http://www.northwestjournal.ca/charactr.html (http://www.northwestjournal.ca/charactr.html)
Puffer
(Following is an excerpt from the site listed above:............)
ART. III. Living History — Selecting a Character
Being a discussion of some characters to portray during reenactments.
A character can be a very useful tool to re-enactors. If you have a firm idea of what kind of person you are going to portray, and from what period, it can help you avoid confusion that could lead to costly or embarrassing mistakes in your portrayal. Over the summer many club members have asked for pointers on what kind of character they should try to depict. To help answer their questions, the following is a portrait—in very broad strokes—of some of the characters of the fur trade before 1821.
Mountain Man
One of the most popular characters in the U.S. is the American Mountain Man or 'buckskinner'. Such a look is characterized by a complete wardrobe made from buckskin, usually in an Indian style—war shirt, breech-clout, leggings, moccasins, etc., with a fur hat and lots of quillwork or beadwork.
_____________________________________________________
:shock: SAY WHAT?? :shock:
The above description of the mountain man's wardrobe, goes aginst nearly everything I've researched in regards to what the trappers commonly wore. (especialy the "war shirts" and to some degree "breech-clouts",.... not to mention "lots of quillwork or beadwork") :shock:
Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the above description sounds (to me) as if it was complied from a Holiwood movie.
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2006, 09:28:47 PM
On starting for a hunt, the trapper fits himself out with the necessary equipment, either from the Indian trading-forts, or from some of the petty traders -- coureurs des bois -- who frequent the western country. This equipment consists usually of two or three horses or mules - one for saddle, the others for packs - and six traps, which are carried in a bag of leather called a trap-sack. Ammunition, a few pounds of tobacco, dressed deer-skins for moccasins, &c., are carried in a wallet of dressed buffalo-skin called a possible-sack. His "possibles" and "trap-sack" are generally carried on the saddle-mule when hunting, the others being packed with the furs. The costume of the trapper is a hunting-shirt of dressed buckskin, ornamented with long fringes; pantaloons of the same material, and decorated with porcupine-quills and long fringes down the outside of the leg, a flexible felt hat and moccasins clothe his extremities. Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang his powder-horn and bullet-pouch, in which he carries his balls, flint and steel, and odds and ends of all kinds. Round the waist is a belt, in which is stuck a large butcher-knife in a sheath of buffalo-hide, made fast to the belt by a chain or guard of steel; which also supports a little buckskin case containing a whetstone. A tomahawk is also often added; and, of course, a long heavy rifle is part and parcel of his equipment. I had nearly forgotten the pipe-holder, which hangs round his neck, and is generally a gage d'amour, and a triumph of squaw workmanship, in shape of a heart, garnished with beads and porcupine-quills. Thus provided, and having determined the locality of his trapping-ground, he starts to the mountains, sometimes alone, sometimes with three or four in company, as soon as the breaking up of the ice allows him to commence operations.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 24, 2006, 09:58:15 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2006, 10:51:48 PM
I can't find one single documented written reference of anyone having ever witnessed such an occasion as a trapper wearing a "war shirt".
Trappers wearing,....
Spanish armour, and etc.,.... YES!
Indian war shirts,.... NO!
If someone could shed some light on such a "historical reference",.... I'd certainly appreciate it.
Until then, I consider such shirts to be more of a "fad" exhibited at modern rendezvous
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2006, 11:38:14 PM
His dress and appearance are equally singular. His skin, from constant exposure, assumes a hue almost as dark as that of the Aborigine, and his features and physical structure attain a rough and hardy cast. His hair, through inattention, becomes long, coarse, and bushy, and loosely dangles upon his shoulders. His head is surmounted by a low crowned wool-hat, or a rude substitute of his own manufacture. His clothes are of buckskin, gaily fringed at the seams with strings of the same material, cut and made in a fashion peculiar to himself and associates. The deer and buffalo furnish him the required covering for his feet, which he fabricates at the impulse of want. His waist is encircled with a belt of leather, holding encased his butcher-knife and pistols—while from his neck is suspended a bullet-pouch securely fastened to the belt in front, and beneath the right arm hangs a powder-horn transversely from his shoulder, behind which, upon the strap attached to it, are affixed his bullet-mould, ball-screw, wiper, awl, &c. With a gun-stick made of some hard wood, and a good rifle placed in his hands, carrying from thirty to thirty-five balls to the pound, the reader will have before him a correct likeness of a genuine mountaineer, when fully equipped.
This costume prevails not only in the mountains proper, but also in the less settled portions of Oregon and California. The mountaineer is his own manufacturer, tailor, shoemaker, and butcher; and, fully accoutered and supplied with ammunition in a good game country, he can always feed and clothe himself, and enjoy all the comforts his situation affords. No wonder, then, his proud spirit, expanding with the intuitive knowledge of noble independence, becomes devotedly attached to those regions and habits that permit him to stalk forth, a sovereign amid nature's loveliest works.
Post by: rollingb on January 25, 2006, 12:20:14 AM
After this our work was changed in some respects. I was appointed carter, as I was not a very good hand with an ax, and soon equipped with an old cart purchased from some of the half-breeds, who had come over early in the fall, and an American horse, which had been brought to this place by Paulette Desjardins, who had come with us as a freeman, but had sold his small outfit to Mr. Campbell and engaged in the capacity of cook. This horse was an old, overgrown, broken-winded beast, which would groan tremendously on starting his load, and keep it up for about a hundred yards afterward, at which I could not help laughing. Here I am, a regular carter of Fort William, dressed in cowskin pants, cowskin coat, buckskin shirt, wolfskin cap, red flannel undershirt, and a blue check shirt over that, stepping along behind my old horse and cart. This great suit was intended to last my time out, under faithful promise, made to myself, to leave the country as soon as my engagement should be up; for I began to find that I was in a bad box.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 25, 2006, 01:06:12 AM
Post by: Two Steps on January 25, 2006, 07:43:41 AM
Quote
Until then, I consider such shirts to be more of a "fad" exhibited at modern rendezvous
rollingb...I know I'm getting ready to catch it, but I would throw the breech cloth (clout) in there with the warshirt. I don't think they were near as common as some folks want them to be. In fact (here it comes) I think they were the exception rather than the rule (there I said it).
Al
Post by: Longhunter on January 25, 2006, 08:34:28 AM
Post by: rollingb on January 25, 2006, 10:08:36 AM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Until then, I consider such shirts to be more of a "fad" exhibited at modern rendezvous
Quote from: "Two Steps"
rollingb...I know I'm getting ready to catch it, but I would throw the breech cloth (clout) in there with the warshirt. I don't think they were near as common as some folks want them to be. In fact (here it comes) I think they were the exception rather than the rule (there I said it).
Al
:laffing
That's why I took acception to the entire following description from the initial "link",.....
_____________________________________________________
Mountain Man
One of the most popular characters in the U.S. is the American Mountain Man or 'buckskinner'. Such a look is characterized by a complete wardrobe made from buckskin, usually in an Indian style—war shirt, breech-clout, leggings, moccasins, etc., with a fur hat and lots of quillwork or beadwork.
_____________________________________________________
Now I know "breech clouts" are a darn handy item to wear around water and in hot weather, but I've never seen historical journals or diaries refer to them as characteristicaly worn by the mountaineers.
In fact the same could be said for "lots of quillwork or beadwork",.... the "link" above would have the reader believe all the mountaineers characteristicaly wore such stuff, yet the descriptions from "first hand accounts" (taken from journals and diaries of the period) does not bear this out.
I don't know what "historical references" the link above used, but I'd be interested in knowing,.... until then I see it as,... huh,... er,.... huh,.... shall we say "misleading"!!
Post by: sse on January 25, 2006, 10:44:15 AM
Thanks, sse
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 25, 2006, 11:21:40 AM
Post by: sse on January 25, 2006, 11:38:35 AM
Quote
unless you are a "gentleman" from the era, now your talking more formal wear.You don't know me too good...LOL!!
Thanks, B-Man
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 25, 2006, 11:54:53 AM
Post by: sse on January 25, 2006, 11:57:35 AM
Regards, sse
Post by: oomcurt on January 25, 2006, 03:32:49 PM
Post by: Captchee on January 25, 2006, 04:26:08 PM
Quote
Now, to each thier own...but this thing about buckskins not being comfortable...maybe if it was 110 degrees in the shade
well you would think wouldn’t ya but actually the opposite is true .
The skins do not breath well and im here to tell you that even at 25 deg just hiking a couple miles up hill with only a rifle a shoot bag , maybe a capote on top and you will soon be soak and wet from your own sweat .
Now while lounging around camp is one thing , we have to remember these fellas were working and working hard .
Try it some time , get dressed in full skins and a fur hat . Make you a like 20 lb pack and go for a hike. Try it in early spring when the weather is still cool . I know for me , my first hunting trip dressed as such in late fall was a miserable experience to say the least . It wasn’t long before I was so hot it was unbearable , that turned to a chill that I thought I would never get warm from
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 26, 2006, 11:07:48 AM
Post by: Captchee on January 26, 2006, 12:44:30 PM
When we go trekking , mind you I do eastern 1750 about time frame . My bed roll is made up of 3 blankets . I heavy , one medium and one light wool . 2 shirts , 4 pairs of socks, 2 extra sets moc ,
An extra knife and eating utensils . A small double boiler for heating water ,eating and cooking in .
Some tea and enough food for a 2 day outing + a candle and extra strike alight .
If I don’t add an oil skin it comes in to right under 20lbs . If I add it im pushing 30 .
Now that’s not including the cloths im wearing . Consisting of 2 shirts breach clout , wool or leather leggings, sash and either a frock or a medium capote.
Eather way I consider that most likely on the light side for the men of that time period as most were in the 20’s and in top notch shape, tempered by a life of hardships .
At that age I was in the army and being infantry 75 to 100 lb loads was not uncommon ,not including weapon and added web gear . 20 to 30lbs back then would have been nothing .
If we consider that even then our soldiers of today most likely were or are not in the same shape as folks that live that life day by day we can get maybe some idea
Post by: Puffer on January 27, 2006, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Watch that partner, you don't want to be lookin down the business end of a couple .54 cal bag pipes!!!!!! 8)
Regards, sse
GO FOR IT !! :hairy
This unrepented "critter", BEAVERMAN, Needs a lesson or 2 :rofl
YES, BEAVERMAN I'm BACK
Puffer
Post by: Sir Michael on January 27, 2006, 08:24:02 PM
Before making too much of grand descriptions of buckskins and such, check out the lists of goods taken to rendezvous by the traders such as those posted on the following WEB site.
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/bizrecs.html
Another thought. The trappers who survived the trapping to the onslaught of civilization sometimes described themselves and dressed to meet the expectations of the flatlanders than how they really dressed when working. (I read that somewhere)
:peace
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 28, 2006, 01:32:41 PM
Post by: Sir Michael on January 28, 2006, 04:41:41 PM
Yes I did read the previous posts but I must be missing your point. Sometimes I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. The leaning of this thread has been discussed in several other threads and forums. My conclusion is that the American Mountain Men started of in "Christian Clothes" as you put it and as clothing wore out patched and eventually substituted either self made copies in what ever material was available. Obviously hides were more readily available than fabric and by extension, their clothing at the end of a year or near isolation left them wearing quite a bit of leather clothing. I'm sure that they did not go into the mountains with just the clothes on their backs. They also did not except for short periods of time. They worked in "brigades" which were composed of several different types of skills, hunters, trappers, cooks, laborers, and others. These "brigades" were well enough equipped to take with them blacksmith tools and an amazing amount of other equipment. For those that took up with Indians, there is I believe little doubt that they adopted in part or whole the dress of their hosts. I'm not sure I understand the debate between those promoting leather and those promoting cloth. IMHO a person portraying an American Mountain Man could legitimately wear a variety of clothing not just one or the other. BTW I do feel that there is problem with members of our persuasion demanding that there is only one way to dress or only certain accoutrement/equipment is allowable. There is too much uncertainty and too may options to try to establish absolutes. However, in the presence of overwhelming proof that a specific item is not suitable is good research and sharing research of that type is an absolute responsibility. :hey-hey Shut up and sit down.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
As to your last question, I asked the same question on another forum and the consensus was that very little of what was taken out was brought back. Furs and hides were too valuable to displace with trade goods. But I really have no idea for sure. I've heard rumors that if your a registered academic you can request information from the HBC archives and if they can find it they'll send it to you via sail mail. Ask Jack.
Post by: Captchee on January 28, 2006, 06:31:36 PM
Quote
I'm not sure I understand the debate between those promoting leather and those promoting cloth. IMHO a person portraying an American Mountain Man could legitimately wear a variety of clothing not just one or the other.+
well said an thats my point . i believe they wore both . leather when the cloth wore out and then replace that leather with more cloth as soon as it became available. Probability a mixture of both most of the time . My strong opinion is that I do not believe the Hollywood image of the western mountain man in complete leather and , ft long fringe and full draping fur on hat is most likely not correct
Post by: Puffer on January 28, 2006, 07:02:36 PM
2 fine cotton or 2 calicoe shirts
1 blanket - 3 pt. striped
1 capote - fine (?)
4 lbs soap ( YES SOAP )
1-2 hankerchef(s)
1 pr fine cord trousers
1 Par Fleche (??)
2 Steel traps
Also, David Thompsonson , several times notes that the Indians REPLACED their animal skin clothes with WOOL, ETC. when ever possible. :idea: that even the "SIMPLE MINDED" Free Trappers would do the same thing, if they could ???? ( Read the lists of goods sent to the Rendezvous)
Also note - I have a close friend who is a Blackfoot /Sioux Med. woman, & she says "war shirts were only worn for war or ceremony puurposes !
ALSO there are a # of ref.s to the trappers, changing into their "finery" when coming into Rendezvous.. These clothes often were "fine shirts" made by their wives.
Puffer
Post by: Puffer on January 28, 2006, 07:26:21 PM
In W. WA. ?? The Blackberrys ,& poison oak will "LOVE" you :rofl :Doh!
Puffer
Post by: Sir Michael on January 28, 2006, 07:46:15 PM
Or am I dreaming again.
I hate being separated from my reference material.
A Quick Check on the Net and voila.
Go to this site and search on it for "breechcloth".
http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XVII1.htm
It was the NWC not the HBC. If they issued them then others must have worn them on their own. IMHO.
Post by: Puffer on January 28, 2006, 08:47:16 PM
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
Puffer, did you find it or did I just run across it some where that the HBC issued Breechcloths at some point in lieu of trousers?
Or am I dreaming again.
I hate being separated from my reference material. :!: NO, I did not know this. :happy Dog gone it, Just when I think I've got a "handle on it" someone comes along & UPSETS the CART.
Thinking of changing my "persona" to the 95th Rifles. @ least I'd have a "standard firearm, uni, & loadout. :Doh!
Puffer
Post by: Sir Michael on January 28, 2006, 09:20:51 PM
:bow Besides It makes you different. :hey-hey
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 28, 2006, 10:34:54 PM
Post by: Captchee on January 28, 2006, 11:18:00 PM
whats a war shirt are we talking an honor shirt ?
Post by: Sir Michael on January 29, 2006, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
Michael and Captchee, i whole heartedley agree with you both on the mix of clothing, thats the point ive been trying to get across here, not just being stuck on one style of clothing, mix and match works well, thus the freedom for us free trappers to do so, not wearing a unform of one type or another as a soldier or sailor etc. if thats what works for you GREAT!,there deffinetly is a need for someone to portray that part of history, as far as brigade men havn the resources I agree, but as i portray a free trapper and not a brigade or company man, i do not have the resources to carry a smitty rig with me nor do i want to, I am self sufficient with what i carry and what my native wife can produce for me to wear with the materials we have. If the tribal elders deem me a warrior and my wife has mase a war shirt for me do I not have the rite to wear my native finery at rondy as anyone else has the rite to show off their finery by wearing a kilt or dress uniform? :hairy
After all, not everyone in the mountains had access more than one suit of clothes to or even the inclination to change clothes every day or even every week if they did. :shock:
Finally, VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE. :mozilla_wink :applaud :peace
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 29, 2006, 10:43:18 AM
Quote from: "Puffer"
SORRY, :bow Sir Michael, BUT the picture of David Thompson going "naked below the belt" kind of put me into a state of shock. :rofl :rofl
Puffer
Puff Ol'buddy, tell me....How do ya manage to double clutch that computer so often :rotf
Russ...
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 29, 2006, 12:44:28 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
i wonder on this war shirt ?Captchee, i think what everyone is refering to as a war shirt is a buckskin shirt with beaded arms strips, maybe beaded strips from the shoulder 1/4 way down the chest and a beaded bib,not just a plain simple buckskin shirt, and god forbid if we even get on the subject of a ghost shirt! not me! not going there!mines Northern plains style, with lakota bead patterns, beaded arm strips, and a beaded bib, going to take some pics today and see if I can get them posted, Jim
whats a war shirt are we talking an honor shirt ?
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 29, 2006, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Double clutch! Russ I think Puffer is spead shiftn!Quote from: "Puffer"SORRY, :bow Sir Michael, BUT the picture of David Thompson going "naked below the belt" kind of put me into a state of shock. :rofl :rofl
Puffer
Puff Ol'buddy, tell me....How do ya manage to double clutch that computer so often :rotf
Russ...
Post by: Puffer on January 29, 2006, 01:04:11 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Puff Ol'buddy, tell me....How do ya manage to double clutch that computer so often :rotf
Russ...
:Doh! DARN'D if I know. I am a computer illiterate. Maybe the Board should appoint a "special Mod." just to DELETE my "double clutches" :rotf I've tried, but no JOY
Puffer
Post by: rollingb on January 29, 2006, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: "Puffer"
Quote from: "RussB"Puff Ol'buddy, tell me....How do ya manage to double clutch that computer so often :rotf
Russ...
:Doh! DARN'D if I know. I am a computer illiterate. Maybe the Board should appoint a "special Mod." just to DELETE my "double clutches" :rotf I've tried, but no JOY :bl th up
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 29, 2006, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: "Puffer"
Quote from: "RussB"Puff Ol'buddy, tell me....How do ya manage to double clutch that computer so often :rotf
Russ...
:Doh! DARN'D if I know. I am a computer illiterate. Maybe the Board should appoint a "special Mod." just to DELETE my "double clutches" :rotf I've tried, but no JOY :shock:
The clicking part.....Not two, or three times, but one time, just one time that's all....see the finger I'm holding up? one (1) time....that's it bro! :rotf
Russ...
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 29, 2006, 01:22:20 PM
Rollingb I didn't see ya sneakin up on Puff's double post....make a little noise, next time.
Russ...
Post by: rollingb on January 29, 2006, 01:32:01 PM
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2006, 01:34:27 PM
Post by: Puffer on January 29, 2006, 02:03:03 PM
Puffer
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 29, 2006, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Russ,..... We might accidently have got'em "both",.... there were 2 there when I "deleted" the top one,..... what did you see??
I saw one trying to get away...slayed it right on the spot, I did!
Russ...
Post by: Sir Michael on January 29, 2006, 03:48:07 PM
Son its a good thing you got a sense of humor. :lol: :lol:
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2006, 04:10:35 PM
Quote
Now I know "breech clouts" are a darn handy item to wear around water and in hot weather, but I've never seen historical journals or diaries refer to them as characteristicaly worn by the mountaineers.
off the top of my head come the many diaries of corps of discovery .
Many ,many depictions and information in them
i believe also the writings and descriptions of the Hennery expedition as well as Ashley’s accounts depict legging and breach clout even among the brigades. If you were a free trapper I would think depending on how long you had been out you would also have soon become accustom to wearing a breech cloth or clout when away from civilazation
Post by: rollingb on January 29, 2006, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
QuoteNow I know "breech clouts" are a darn handy item to wear around water and in hot weather, but I've never seen historical journals or diaries refer to them as characteristicaly worn by the mountaineers.
off the top of my head come the many diaries of corps of discovery .
Many ,many depictions and information in them
i believe also the writings and descriptions of the Hennery expedition as well as Ashley’s accounts depict legging and breach clout even among the brigades. If you were a free trapper I would think depending on how long you had been out you would also have soon become accustom to wearing a breech cloth or clout when away from civilazation
Captchee,.... Maybe so, but what I've read in "The Journals of Lewis and Clark" by Bernard DeVoto, fails to make any mention of the expedition members wearing "breech cloths",..... I realize this book is a condensed version of the original journals (and lacks sketchs and etc.) so "breech cloths" may very well have been left out as not being important enough to mention.
Also,... I've read "William H. Ashley 1825 Rocky Mountain Papers" several times over the years and failed to notice any mention of "breech cloths" being worn by members of his brigade.
I have no writings with regards to Henry's Expedition, so I don't know if there is any mention of them or not.
Potts, Beall, Drugeon, Ferris, Thomas, Bradbury, Larpenteur, Spalding, Luttig, Russell, Pattie, Ruxton, and Sage,..... also fail to mention trappers wearing breech cloths, unless I've missed it somewhere. (which is entirely possible)
Would you care to share some "quotes" from the resources you have,.... I would appreciate any such information/documentation.
(thanks in advance)
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2006, 06:03:35 PM
Ashley speaks of then being worn crossing the high plains desert here in Idaho “ Snake river plain as well as describing breech cloths being work before and after the his wreck and loss of cannon along what is now Owyhee river .
the diaries of Lewis and Clark
description of Drouillard ,
also note their description of their Creole engages
to include Drouillard Mcruzatte, Labiche and Lapage .
National archives and recourds administration9NARA), recourd group 98 ‘
J Thomas Scharf in wrote concerning the Creole and French of the French as late as 1883 :
their shirts were mostly of tow blue or striped cotton colored always . their legs were either clad in trousers of tow or else in leather leggings and clout . there was a belt about the waist of leather or variegated worsted, which supported the trousers and which from it hung their knife , tobacco pouch . feet were cover in deer skin moccasins
when we get to the issue leather you would think that by half way through and on their return leather would have been common at least for pants .yet in 1810 when Drouillard was killed by the Blackfoot at three forks what did his estate consist of when probated in St lois in 1812
7 white shirts
6 vests without sleeves
6 handkerchiefs for neck
3 pair of pantaloons or Coulottes
2 coats
2 pair socks
2 pair pants of tow
2 flannel shirts
1 handkerchief head
11 cotton shirts
2 pleated coats
1 vest with sleeves
4 shirts of calico
1 shirt cotton
1 pantaloon of cotton
1 night cap
1 mulatto boy
2 hourses
This is not to say they didn’t use leather because they did as well but anyway back on track here
Sgt Gass account of small boy coming into camp in breech clout , leggings and rob , temp 70 deg below .
He also accounts that Indian style garments were easier to make and sew together .
“ the leather garments fashioned by the members themselves included. Shirts. Leggings, moccasins and breechclouts
Mandan village , ML ,CD
Moulton journals, vol 3 p.164; vol10p.58, ;vol3 pp270-271
Some very good information as well a artist renditions can be found in the book
Tailor made , Trail Worn
Army Life ,Clothing, and weapons of the corp. of discovery
Very informative book on the weapons , Clothes and day to day encounters of the corp
Post by: rollingb on January 29, 2006, 06:28:48 PM
Just out of curosity, and beings you mentioned,.... "Army Life ,Clothing, and weapons of the corp. of discovery"
What information is given, in regards to what shoulder-arms was carried by the Corp of Discovery???????? (any particular "documentation" of the 1803 Harpers Ferry going west with the Corp.??)
Post by: Sir Michael on January 29, 2006, 07:11:25 PM
Read the Who Carried this Weapon Thread in the Clothing Section
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2006, 07:12:22 PM
as to the harpers ferry the show comparisons betwen the 1792 contract and the 1803 harpers ferry
here is what they write on the subject
plate #168, An original 1792 contract rifle and a model 1803 harpers ferry rifle shown side by side, showing the discrepancies-and similarities- between the two . this rare exsample of a 1792 contract rifle is one of five currently known to exsist. it apparently was pulled from an armory during the war of 1812 and retrfitted with a new lock plate dated 1812.
similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition
Post by: Puffer on January 29, 2006, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
there is 24 pages on the rifles , muskets , fusils of the corps,even discussing the weapons cartridgesand contaners used
as to the harpers ferry the show comparisons betwen the 1792 contract and the 1803 harpers ferry
here is what they write on the subject
plate #168, An original 1792 contract rifle and a model 1803 harpers ferry rifle shown side by side, showing the discrepancies-and similarities- between the two . this rare exsample of a 1792 contract rifle is one of five currently known to exsist. it apparently was pulled from an armory during the war of 1812 and retrfitted with a new lock plate dated 1812.
similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition
Captchee, see these "official" sites http://www.army.mil/cmh/LC/The%20Missio ... rifles.htm (http://www.army.mil/cmh/LC/The%20Mission/Facts/rifles.htm)
http://www.nps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm (http://www.nps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm)
Puffer
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2006, 09:38:49 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 29, 2006, 11:27:31 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition
That goes along with my thinking too.
Post by: GreyWolf on January 30, 2006, 02:59:21 PM
The article discusses all items being discussed, here including: breech clouts, leather (widely used and mentioned as such in several journals), fur hats, styles of pants, shirts, coats, et al with plenty of primary source notes. IMO this is one of the single best articles on the subject I've seen in my 45 years of studying the trans-Mississippi fur trade for the 1820-1840 period. There is a companion articles in BoB 8 regarding the gear of the trapper by Rex A Norman.
Another major source of info is of course the sketches and prints of Alfred Jacob Miller - albeit this is a single snap shot in time and is the "artist's" view with all the baggage that implies - still all in all a good resource when viewed with the inherent problems involved in cross referencing such artistic works.
Trade lists are of course valuable even invaluable, but one also MUST remember the "when" and the "for who" the items were intended - much was intended for the Natives, who were a much larger market, and not just the Mountaineers. Example: As to when - in the article listed above, it is noted that in the earliest rendezvous lists, that NO completed cloth clothing was taken to rendezvous, only bolts of cloth.
One last thing to remember, seldom mentioned or taken into account, is the weather of the time period. The Little Ice Age which had started in the mid 14th century was still affecting the world's weather during the period up until around 1850. The affects were several including making things generally cooler and wetter.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 31, 2006, 12:55:05 AM
Post by: Sir Michael on January 31, 2006, 08:23:44 PM
In the spring, when the camp breaks up, the skins which have been used all winter for lodges are cut up to make moccasins: because from their having been thoroughly smoked by the lodge fires they do not shrink in wetting, like raw skins. This is an important quality in a moccasin, as a trapper is almost constantly in the water, and should not his moccasins be smoked they will close upon his feet, in drying, like a vice. Sometimes after trapping all day, the tired and soaked trapper lies down in his blankets at night, still wet. But by-and-by he is wakened by the pinching of his moccasins, and is obliged to rise and seek the water again to relieve himself of the pain. For the same reason, when spring comes, the trapper is forced to cut off the lower half of his buckskin breeches, and piece them down with blanket legging, which he wears all through the trapping season.
I just thought it was interesting.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 31, 2006, 08:37:14 PM
Post by: GreyWolf on January 31, 2006, 09:39:23 PM
The reference regarding moccasins drying tight shows up many times thrught out the 18th century and 19th century - some references refer to field expedient moccasins, whose life span is never very long using the materials of the period anyway, being made from green hides which would definitely dry tight..................but then again they wear out pretty quick no matter what.
Post by: rollingb on March 09, 2006, 08:49:46 PM
There are about three hundred men, who compose the roving, hunting parties in these regions, excluding those, who remain principally at the several forts or trading posts, on the east and west sides of the mountains. One half or more of this number, are employed as "camp keepers," who perform all duties required in camp, such as cooking, dressing beaver, making leather thongs, packing, unpacking, and guarding horses, etc., and remaining constantly in camp, are ever ready to defend it from the attacks of Indians.
These men are usually hired by the company, and more or less of them accompany every party of trappers, in their excursions, or "hunts," for beaver. The trappers on the contrary, are most of the time absent from camp in quest of game, or castor.
They are divided into two classes; those engaged to the companies, to hunt for stipulated salaries; and those called "Freemen," who have horses and traps of their own, who rove at pleasure, where they please, and dispose of their furs to whom they please. They are never unhappy when they have plenty to eat. They collect skins to exchange for necessaries with the traders; their wants are few, and seldom extend beyond the possession of a few horses, traps, and a rifle, and some other little "fixens;" the attainment of these simple desires, generally constituting the height of a hunter's ambition. There are however a few individuals, who yearly lay by a small sum, from the profits of their profession, for the purpose of purchasing land, and securing to themselves a home hereafter, in some of the western states, at which they may peacefully repose in their declining years. But these instances of prudent forethought are extremely rare; and the purchase of grog and tobacco, and the practice of gaming, more frequently disperse their surplus funds, with a facility far greater than that in which they were obtained.
Many of these mountaineers have taken squaws for their wives, by whom they have children. These females are usually dressed in broad cloths, either green, scarlet, or blue. Their frocks are commonly of the latter color entirely, or a combination of the other two; the waist and sleeves being composed of one, and the skirt of the other; and these dresses appear very becoming. On their heads they wear nothing but handkerchiefs, and their feet are enveloped in moccasins.
The clothing of the hunters themselves, is generally made of prepared skins, though most of them wear blanket "capotes," (overcoats,) and calico shirts. Some of them however, make coats of their buffalo robes, which are very warm and comfortable in cold weather, but become rigid and useless, if they are exposed to rains, or otherwise get wet. Moccasins are worn universally by all the whites and Indians. One half of these men are Canadians, and Half-breeds, who speak French, and some both French and English; the remainder are principally Americans, from every part of the United States.
Post by: sse on March 09, 2006, 08:57:34 PM
Regards, sse
Post by: GreyWolf on March 10, 2006, 11:23:12 AM
"The Shawnees of the party wore buckskin pants and hunting shirt, with fringes of buckskin strings along the seams of the legs and sleeves..... Most of the white trappers wore a dress similar to that of the Shawnees, an account of its great durability, as it would last from three to four years, not with standing the hard use it received." pg. 19 "Wild Life in the Far West" by James Hobbs (Rio Grande Press)
"I supped this minute at a tavern table, amidst village politicians, pedantic doctors, and wise looking lawyers- My dirty hunting shirt and greasy leather breeches seemed to offend their hypercritical eyes and too curious olfactories- God Help them!." "The Rocky Mountain Journals of William Marshall Anderson", pg. 54
"Here I am, a regular carter of Fort William, dressed in cowskin (buffulo) pants, cowskin coat, buckskin shirt, wolfskin cap, red flannel undershirt, and a blue check shirt over that..""Forty Years a Fur Trader on the Upper Missouri" (the personal narrative of Charles Larpentuer) pgs. 43-44.
"...Naturally, if some of this mixture (speaking of castorium) spilled on their hands, they wiped it on their buckskins; they didn't stop there, but wiped their greasy hands on their skins after eating, and wiped off the blood when skinning. The resulting color and flavor of the skin was not the clean gold of fresh-tanned hides, but, as Berry says....black. Dirty black, greasy black, shiny black, bloody black, stinky black. Black.""Journal of a Mountain Man" by James Clyman pg. 7
"His dress was the usual hunting-flock of buckskin, with long fringes down the seams, with pantaloons similarly ornamented, and moccasins of indian make." pg. 4 (Journal of a Trapper)
"..his personal dress is a flannel or cotton shirt (if he is fortunate enough to obtain one, if not antelope skin answers the purpose of over and under shirt) a pair of leather breeches with blanket or smoked buffulo skin, leggings, a coat made of blanket or buffulo robe, a hat or cap of wool, buffulo or otter skin his hose are pieces of blanket lapped round his feet which are covered with a pair of moccasins made of dressed deer elk or buffalo skins with this long hair falling loosely over his shoulders completes his uniform." pg. 82, "Journal of a Trapper" Osbourne Russell.
"The upper part of the body was clad in a light blue shirt of course cotton or other cloth, and in some cases breeches with long deerskin leggings were worn, leaving the thighs and hips bare. The cloth which was folded around the loins was held in place by the girdle, while a "hunting shirt with a large cape and loose sleeves reached nearly to the knees." pgs. 60 and 61 "The American Fur Trade of the Far West" by Hiram Martin Chittenden Volume one.
"The costume of the trapper is a hunting shirt of dressed deerskin, ornamented with long fringes, pantaloons of the same material, decorated with porcupine quills and long fringes on the outside of the leg. A flexible felt hat and moccasins clothe the extremities" pg. 228 "Ruxton of the Rockies" by George Ruxton.
"The cloth pants were gone too- ripped- and long since replaced with buckskin. Buckskin wore for ever, eventually getting black and hard with grease, and you didn't have to pay a price jacked way up because someone had brought your pants by horse back from St. Louis. The fringes came in handy, too for various repairs." pg. 44 "Give Your Heart to the Hawks" by Winfred Blevins.
"I was still wearing my city clothes, and mountain men present asked Williams what he was going to do with that city lad in the mountains. This remark cut me deeply, and I hurried to the frontier store and traded all my fine clothes, shirts and dickies, which were worn in those days, for two suits of the finest buckskin, such as these merchants always kept on hand to fleece greenhorns like myself, making five hundred percent profit in the trade. The next morning I appeared dressed "a la prairie" and the old trappers noticed the change and said "Williams, that boy of yours will make a mountaineer if he catches on at this rate." pgs. 18,19 "My Sixty years on the Plains" by William Thomas Hamilton.
Much of this had to do with tailoring. We have seen that the mountain man preferred wool clothing when he could get it, but probably he had little that was still serviceable when winter came.If he had worn skin breeches, he had staged them at the knees and sewn on legs of blanketing which would not shrink intolerably when they dried......For moccasins and the leggings which both Indians and trappers wore, usually to the hip, the best material was last year's tipi." pg 163. Bernard De Voto- "Across the Wide Missouri".
Gerald Rawling, writer of "The Pathfinders": "The rest of his equipment he wore on his body. His clothes were of cotton or wool when he could get them, but store bought clothes seldom lasted the season though, and more often than not he had to make do with animal hides. He wore a fringed buckskin hunting shirt with a pair of leather breeches and leggings made of smoked buffulo hide. His feet were wrapped in strips of blanketing, and encased in moccasins of indian manufacture- the only possible footwear for getting about in rough country. Over all, he wore a capote (blanket coat) or a buffulo robe pulled in at the waist by a leather belt, into which were thrust a piratical collection of sidearms- pistols,scalping knifes and hatchets- while suspended from his shoulder was a powder horn and bullet pouch." pgs 52 and 53.
"Down to his shoulders hung the hunter's hair, covered with a felt hat or perhaps the hood of a capote. He liked wool clothing, for it would not shrink as it dried and wake him, when he dozed beside the fire, by agonizingly squeezing his limbs. But wool soon wore out and he then clad himself in leather, burdensomely heavy to wear, fringed on the seams with the familiar thongs which were partly to decorate but most utilitarian, to let rain drip off the garment rather than soak in, and to furnish material for mending. Further waterproofing was added by wiping butcher and eating knifes on the garments until they were black and shiny with grease. Upper garments might be pull-over type or cut like a coat, the buttonless edges folded over and clinched into place with a belt. No underclothes were worn, just breechclout. In extreme cold a Hudson's Bay blanket or a buffulo robe was draped Indian-wise over the entire costume." Bent's Fort By David Lavender pgs.73-74.
"..the old trappers and hunters wear their hair flowing on their shoulders, and their large grizzled beards would scarcely disgrace a Bedouin if the desert." Across the Rockies to the Columbia", By John Kirk Townsend.
"He (the free trapper) was ordinarily gaunt and spare, browned with exposure, his hair long and unkept, while his general makeup with the queer dress which he wore, made it often difficult to distinguish from an Indian."
"Partly form inclination and partly from necessarily the hunter in his dress adopted the customs of the indians. The clothes he brought from form the states quickly fell to pieces under the wear and tear of the life in which he engaged. The indian costume was the most convenient substitute. There was moreover a manifest pride on the part of the hunter in imitating the garb of his red brethren, and it is doubtful if the fondness of the latter for the incongruous combination of his own and white men's clothes was more marked than that of the wild attire of the savage." Volume one of "The American Fur Trade of the Far West"; Hiram Martin Chittenden pgs. 59-61
"The trappers wore a colorful combination of buckskin suits, woolen blanket capotes, fur caps and fur lined moccasins and legging, of the designs from which their individual fancy nd style of indian tribes with which they had been associated." "John Colter" (His Years in the Rockies) by Burton Harris. pgs. 49, 50.
"Before we reached the fort (fort Laramie) we encounter the first white "pale faces" we had seen since our departure from Missouri. They were french canadians, clad half indian fashion in leather, and scurrying along with their ponies, bedight with bells and gay ribbons, as if intent to storm the battery." Dr. Frederick A. Wislezenus' Journal in "Rocky Mountain Rendezvous" by Fred Gowens.
"To form an adequate conception of their appeal, you must see it. A suit of clothes is seldom washed or turned from the time it is first worn until it is laid aside. Caps and hats are made of beaver and otter skins, the skins of buffulo calves and c...You will perhaps recollect to have seen in the "far west" of our own United States, the buckskin hunting shirt and leggings gracefully hung with fringes along the arm and sides. But I am sure you have never seen the tasty fashion of the fringes carried to perfection. Here they are six or seven inches long and hung densely on every seam...."Rocky Mountain Rendezvous" (Philip Edwards's description) pgs. 116-117.
" ...You cannot pay a free trapper a greater compliment than to persuade him you have mistaken him for a indian brave; and in truth, the counterfeit is complete. His hair, suffered to attain to a great length, is carefully combed out, and either left to fall carelessly over his shoulders, or plaited neatly and tied up in otter skins, or multi-colored ribbons. A hunting shirt of bright calico of bright dyes, or of ornamented leather, falls to his knee; below which, curiously fashioned leggings, ornamented with strings, fringes, and profusion of hawks' bells, reach to a costly pair of moccasins of the finest Indian fabric, richly embroidered with beads. A blanket of scarlet, or some other color, hangs from his shoulders, and is girt around his waist with a red sash, in which he bestows pistols, knife, and the stem of his Indian pipe; preparations for either peace or was. His gun is lavishly decorated with brass tacks and vermillion, and ornamented here and there with a feather." "Adventures of Captain Bonneville" Washington Irving pgs. 110-111.
"I think I was something of a fop in those days and sometimes have a good laugh to think how I must of looked in my fringed suit of buckskin with a ruffed skirt to match." "Journal of a Mountain Man" James Clyman pg. 8.
"The kit I selected from my baggage was merely half dozen colored shirts, an overcoat of white blanket with a hood, a leather belt, a broad brimmed un-napped white hat, my ammunition, and a rifle; a tooth-brush, and a mane-comb which I thought least likely to break, were in my pocket, a butcher knife was in my belt, and an awl was attached to my pouch, which with a large transparent horn of powder, and a wooden measure hanging to it, completed my equipment. This was full marching order; but a leather shirt over my cotton one, and my leather leggings, reaching halfway up the thigh and tied to a inner sash, was to be the costume of the steam-boat deck and periods of halt." "Edward Warren" William Drummond Stewart pg 51.
"The outfit of a trapper is generally a rifle, a pound of powder, and four pounds of lead, with a bullet mould, seven traps, an axe, a hatchet, a knife and awl, a camp kettle, two blankets and , where supplies are plenty, seven pounds of flour. He has, generally, two or three horses, to carry himself, and his baggage and peltries. Two trappers commonly go together, for the purposes of mutual assistance and support; a larger party could not easily escape the eyes of the Indians." pg. 336 "The Adventures of Captain Bonneville, U.S.A. Washington Irving.
"On the lst day of our stay in this camp the trappers were ready for departure. When in the Black Hills they has caught seven beavers, and now left their skins in charge of Reynal, to be kept until they return. Their string, gaunt horses were equipped with rusty Spanish bits, and rude Mexican saddles, to which wooden stirrups were attached, while a buffulo-robe was rolled up behind, and bundle of beaver-traps slung at the pommel. These, together with their rifles, knives, powder horns and bullet pouches, flint and steel, and a tin cup composed their whole travelling equipment." "Oregon Trail", Francis Parkman
"I looked up and saw a man, not much more than five feet high, but of very square and strong proportions. In appearance he was particularly dingy; for his old buck-skin frock was black and polished with time and grease, and his belt, knife, pouch and powder horn appeared to have seen the roughest service. The first joint of each foot was entirely gone, having been frozen off several winters before, and his moccasins and equipment bespoke the "free trapper." He had a round, ruddy face, animate with a spirit of carelessness and gaiety not at all in accordance with the words he had just spoken." pg. 141 "Oregon Trail".
"My hair hung matted and uncombed. My head was surmounted with an old straw hat. My legs were fitted with leather leggings,and my body arrayed in a leather hunting shirt, and no want of dirt about any part of the whole. My companions did not shame me, in comparison, by being better clad." pg. 66 "The Personal Narrative of James O. Pattie", Bison Books.
Leroy Hafen calls what the mountain men wore "as perhaps the only original American costume- the fringed buckskin suit". Journal of a Mountain Man by James Clyman pg. ix.
James Hobbs tells us what the mountain man did after a long time in mountains and just coming in town: "That evening, the men, having received their pay, threw away their old buckskin suits, got washed and properly barbered up, put on their new suits, appeared once more in the style on the streets." (afterwards they went to a masquade party- but decline to wear masks and would not check their guns at the door.) "Wild Life in the Far West, 1834-1870" James Hobbs, Rio Grande Press. pg. 167.
"His dress and appearance are equally singular. His skin, from constant exposure, assumes a hue almost as dark as that of the Aborigine, and his features and phyiscial structure attain a rough and hardy cast. His hair, through inattention, becomes long, coarse and bushy, and loosely dangles upon his shoulders. His head is surmounted by a low crowned wool-hat, or a rude substitute of his own manufacture. His clothes are of buckskin, gaily fringed at the seams with strings of the same material, cut and made in a fashion peculiar to himself and associates. The deer and buffulo furnish him the required covering for his feet, which he fabricates at the impulse of want. His waist is incircled with a belt of leather, holding encased his butcher- knife and pistols- while from his neck is suspended a bullet pouch securely fastened to the belt in front, and beneath the right arm hangs a powder horn transversely from his shoulder, beneath which, upon the strap attached to it, are affixed his bullet-mould, ball screw, wiper, awl & c. With a gun stick made of some hard wood, and a good rifle placed in his hands, carrying from thirty to thirty five balls to the pound, the reader will have before him a correct likeness of a genuine mountaineer, when fully equipped. The costume prevails not only in the mountains proper, but also in the less settled portions of Oregon and California. The mountaineer is his own manufacturer, tailor. shoemaker and butcher; and fully accoutred and supplied with ammunition in a good game country, he can always feed and clothe himself, and enjoy all the comfort the situation affords. No wonder, then, his proud spirit, expanding with the intuitive knowledge of noble independence, becomes devotedly attached to those regions and habits that permit him to stalk forth, a sovereign amid nature's loveliest works." "Rocky Mountain Life" Rufus Sage, Pages 38 and 39.
"The bed of a mountaineer is an article of neither complex in its nature nor difficult in its adjustment. A single buffulo robe folded double and spread upon the ground, with a rock or knoll or some substitute for a pillow, furnishes the sole base- work upon which the sleeper reclines, and enveloped in am additional blanket or robe, contently enjoys his rest." Rufus Sage, Rocky Mountain Life"
"Fifteen men were detailed on the north side facing the scattered pines, with every preparation made for a hand-to hand conflict. Each man had his tooth-pick or large knife in his belt, besides a trapping hatchet. The latter contained two pounds of steel, s sharp and dangerous weopon in the hands of determined men who were contending for thier lives." "My Sixty Years on the Plains", Willaim Hamilton page 151.
"The outfit of each man was a rifle, together with as much powder and lead as it was supposed would last for two years. Each one took six traps, which were packed upon an extra horse with each man was furnished. Pistols, awls, axes, knives, camp kettles, blankets and various other essential little articles, also made a part of the equipage. Captain Williams provided himself with an assortment of light portable little notions, intended as presents for the indians. To the expedition belonged also four dogs, (great favorites of thier masters,) one of which was a very superior grey-hound, that was taken along by his owner to catch deeer on the plains." "The Lost Trappers" David Coyner, page 7. (see also page 165)
He (Henry Chatillon) wore a white blanket coat, a broad hat of felt, moccasins and trousers of deerskin, oramented along the seams with rows of long fringes. His knife was stuck in his belt; his bullet pouch and powderhorn hung at his side, and his rifle lay before him, resting against the high pommel of his saddle, which, like all his equipments, had seen hard sevice, and much the worse for wear....His outfit (Shaw's), which resembled mine, had been provided with a view to use rather than ornament. It consisted of a plain black Spanish saddle, with holsteres of heavy pistols, a blanket rolled up behind, and the trail rope attached to his horse's neck hanging coiled in front. He carried a double barreled smooth bore, while I had a rifle of some fifteen pounds' weight. At that time our attire, though far from elegant, bore some marks of civilization, and offered a very favorable contrast to the inimitable shabbiness of our appearance on the return journey. A red flannel shirt, belte d around the waist like a frock, then constituted our upper garment; moccasins had surplanted our failing boots; and the remaining essential portion of our attire consisted of an extraordinary article, manufactured by a squaw out of smoked bucksin. "Oregon Trail" pages 9, 10 Francis Parkman.
"...and Reynal thought it proper to lay aside his trapper's dress of bucksin and assume the very scanty costume of an indian. Thus elegantly attired he streched himself in his lodge on a buffulo robe, alternately cursing the heat and puffing at the pipe which he and passed between us. page 237, Oregon Trail.
thanks go to Mike Moore of the AMM JIm Baker party who compiled the above descriptions
Post by: rollingb on March 10, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: GreyWolf on March 10, 2006, 12:09:46 PM
BTW I spelled the gent's name it's been corrected to Moore.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on March 10, 2006, 12:29:53 PM
Post by: ridjrunr on March 17, 2009, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Excerpt from Charle Larpenteur's "Forty Years a Fur Trapper", as he describes the cloths he wore during the construction of Fort William located at the mouth of the Yellowstone in 1833-34.Would this blue check shirt be similar to a long hunter style shirt??
After this our work was changed in some respects. I was appointed carter, as I was not a very good hand with an ax, and soon equipped with an old cart purchased from some of the half-breeds, who had come over early in the fall, and an American horse, which had been brought to this place by Paulette Desjardins, who had come with us as a freeman, but had sold his small outfit to Mr. Campbell and engaged in the capacity of cook. This horse was an old, overgrown, broken-winded beast, which would groan tremendously on starting his load, and keep it up for about a hundred yards afterward, at which I could not help laughing. Here I am, a regular carter of Fort William, dressed in cowskin pants, cowskin coat, buckskin shirt, wolfskin cap, red flannel undershirt, and a blue check shirt over that, stepping along behind my old horse and cart. This great suit was intended to last my time out, under faithful promise, made to myself, to leave the country as soon as my engagement should be up; for I began to find that I was in a bad box.
Post by: woodman on March 19, 2009, 11:21:21 AM
It could be. That style of shirt lasted a long time. There is a painting in the Denver Art Museum done in 1846 that depicts a man a horseback wearing that style of shirt. It's by Charles Deas and the title is "Long Jake".
Woodman