Post by: Rasch Chronicles on August 17, 2011, 10:47:34 PM
Here is something that I have wondered about, but never researched. Where there itinerant blacksmiths?
If so, when did they appear? Are there any references?
The more I look at historically accurate portrayals as you fellows do, the more I realize how romanticized our picture is. For instance, in The Last of the Mohicans, Hawkeye uses Pennsylvania rifles. I’m sure if I do a search you guys have hashed that one out repeatedly! Here is another example: Pilgrims and blunderbusses! Popular culture (Hollywood) really does dictate how we perceive things.
So, I was curious if there where itinerant smiths that might have traveled the frontier towns, or if maybe there were enough released apprentices to fill the needs of new communities.
Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
Post by: rickevans on August 26, 2011, 10:46:51 AM
The biggest issue would be how to tote around the blower or bellows required for the forge. Not to mention the forge and anvil, swage block, vice....I need a bigger wagon! And an apprentice or two.
Post by: snake eyes on August 27, 2011, 05:35:28 AM
I am by no means an historian on the subject,or pretend to be.
Having said that I do have an opinion. One thing I have learned from this and
other such forums is that,of all craftsmen,it was the smithy that could
improvise the best. In their travels west it seems unlikely to me that the
wagon trains would not have had a blacksmith with them.Maybe he didn't
know he was a blacksmith,but he did know the use of fire and metal.Looking
back into even BC times they were working with metals.Rome,Egypt,Greese,Persia and others understood how to work metal into weapons.
I think in all likelyhood there almost had to be itinerant smithys.I know you want to see in in writing and I hope you find it.I say there was just because
there almost had to be. Just a thought
John
Post by: Sir Michael on August 28, 2011, 02:03:29 PM
The U.S. Military in the Revolution designed a traveling blacksmith wagon around a portable forge. Which may have lead to or from itinerant civilian blacksmiths.
Post by: rickevans on August 29, 2011, 09:01:54 AM
Post by: Kermit on August 29, 2011, 08:28:04 PM
Here's a bit of interesting background on what it meant to be a journeyman, in order to become a master and settle down in one spot.
http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/ ... an__S.html (http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/04__W__t__G/01/10__Journeyman/Journeyman__S.html)
Post by: Loyalist Dave on August 30, 2011, 10:56:32 PM
First a blacksmith was a smith, an accomplished craftsman. You would not have found an apprentice "released", for to be released, he had become a journeyman, and then a smith. He would've had his own tools at that point, which he had made. IF you did find a masterless journeyman or apprentice, he either absconded, or his master died. Forget somebody impersonating a smith when only a journeyman. The minute they got a tough job like doing a weld, and it didn't work, or failed, their secret would be known, and they'd be run out of town.
Lets consider the trade next. Within the "blacksmith" trade, you have in the 18th century, farriers (horseshoe guys), nailers (they made nails), blacksmiths, and gunsmiths. The first two can work iron, but can they temper iron, and more importantly, can they forge weld? True, farriers were found with the army, not so much the blacksmith, but also the army is its own customer, and has a massive supply train moving with it. The smith with an army probably didn't own his anvil or his forge. There were also blacksmiths who specialized in other things, like chain makers..., but you find them in much more industrialized parts of the country.
Now lets consider logistics. The article on the German itinerant journeymen was interesting, but it was about those trades or crafts where the men go to the location of the work. i.e. Itinerant journeyman masons must go to where the building is being built, but they don't necessarily know how to make bricks..., in Europe a brickmaker did that. The raw materials are on site when they arrive.
When it comes to blacksmithing, you need coal or charcoal, a bellows, tools, iron, and..., an anvil. THAT is huge undertaking in a country with very few roads capable of supporting wagon traffic, AND you also need..., customers. It's a rather daunting and expensive task to move even a basic 18th century blacksmtih operation from town to town by wagon hoping the town doesn't already have a smith, and hoping to find enough customers to make the trip there profitable, with enough left over to pay for the trip to the next town. And don't be fooled by stump anvils and such..., if you were going to do this, you would need a full sized, proper anvil..., for you have no idea what specific skills you will need when you go from job to job, town to town. One man needs hinges, another needs some chain, another needs a fire spit, etc etc. Now add to that the fact the higher populated colonies are also those whose wagon roads cannot be traveled for 6 months of the year due to weather, and you have a very troublesome task...., but the permanent blacksmith..., the work comes to him.
So what we find is that permanent blacksmiths might have a shop less than a week's ride from the frontier, but not on the frontier..., for the smith needs a good many customers to keep him in business, plus raw material support, and the first rule of business is ..., location, location, location . Which is why you can find lots of records of individuals arriving in a town, and setting up a permanent shop, or the local rich guy or guys hire a smith to come to town to set up a permanent shop.
In the 19th century, you may find such a fellow, when the availability of anvils and the much wider use of coal instead of charcoal occurs, but I doubt it in the 18th cenury, for the reasons explained above.
Now you do find itinerant copper and tin workers..., tinkers, and coppersmiths, but remember too they most often repaired items, as copper and tin is much more fragile than wrought iron. Their logistics was much much simpler too, for the temps needed to use solder can be found in a basic fire.
LD
Post by: Indiana on August 31, 2011, 07:16:47 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Blacksm ... 556&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Blacksmithing-Constructing-Information/dp/1456364812/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314832556&sr=8-1)
Post by: Rasch Chronicles on September 06, 2011, 10:16:35 AM
I had my suspicions that an itinerant blacksmith might be an anomoly if one even existed. As LD says, just the logistics alone and the ability to make it pay would be a deterent. On the other hand, moving to a new established hamlet or even a staging area would be much more likely.
Thanks again for thinking this through with me!
Best regards,
Albert “The Afghan†Rasch
Post by: rickevans on September 06, 2011, 01:31:54 PM
So, as LD has pointed out, it would not only be quite an undertaking to move one's shop about, it might be detrimental to ones well being to roll into an area already supporting one blacksmith.
Post by: Loyalist Dave on September 06, 2011, 02:23:50 PM
LD
Post by: buffcreekforge on September 13, 2011, 11:58:21 AM
Humbly Submitted
Just Dave
Post by: Uncle Russ on September 13, 2011, 11:44:31 PM
Good post!
Uncle Russ..
Post by: Mick Cain on September 24, 2011, 10:43:42 PM
Reading thru the post I was waiting to see the one By Just Dave. If you would want to think of a traveling smith the Lewis & Clark Journals are probraly the best Primary source to study. John Sheilds in particular seemed to have a knack with making do. from what i have gleaned all they took with them concerning a blacksmith set up was Bellows, stakes ( stump type anvils ) and associated tools. I cannot remember the chapter but these were items left at what they named " Cache creek " (my apologies if i got the name wrong ) that Merriwether Lewis listed in his journal. before crossing the Cont. Divide heading west. As far as a forge all it does is hold the fire (basic description I know) and could/would have been constructed on site be it just a hole in the ground to a wood & clay construction of sort. also supposely they found an exposed vein of coal on the upper Missouri above Fort Mandan though my beleif is they just used Charcoal.
My 2 cents worth but I love the topic.
Mick
Post by: Loyalist Dave on September 28, 2011, 02:42:28 PM
LD
Post by: rickevans on September 28, 2011, 02:51:58 PM
The bellows wol dbeythe hardest (bulkiest) thing to transport...
Nice research.