Post by: Geezer in NH on July 13, 2014, 08:25:05 PM
Post by: trent/OH on July 13, 2014, 08:54:41 PM
Post by: Detached on July 14, 2014, 07:35:13 AM
Post by: mario on July 14, 2014, 11:13:15 AM
Mario
Post by: Geezer in NH on July 14, 2014, 01:09:41 PM
Post by: Indiana on July 15, 2014, 04:54:07 AM
Post by: Indiana on July 15, 2014, 04:56:35 AM
Post by: Detached on July 15, 2014, 07:30:22 AM
Quote from: "mario"
The sad part is, the book and the movies have little to do with actual historical fact.
Why is that sad? Star Wars had little to do with fact, it was still fun to watch.
Post by: sse on July 15, 2014, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: "Indiana"
An interesting related story--I have a some number of greats-grandfather whose name was Alfus Uncas. Family history has it that his mother was reading the Last of the Mohicans while she was pregnant him and upon his birth named him after Uncas!
Indiana...! Good to see ya again, pilgrim...!
Post by: snake eyes on July 15, 2014, 12:42:18 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Indiana...! Good to see ya again, pilgrim...!
:shake [/color]
Post by: mario on July 15, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: "Detached"
Quote from: "mario"The sad part is, the book and the movies have little to do with actual historical fact.
Why is that sad? Star Wars had little to do with fact, it was still fun to watch.
They're totally fun to watch.
But since it's about something in the past, many folks think that it's historical fact and 1. get a skewed view of the F&I War, 2. Show up at LH events looking all "Hawkeye" and wonder why they aren't permitted to attend.
Mario
Post by: Detached on July 15, 2014, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: "mario"
...many folks think that it's historical fact and...Show up at LH events looking all "Hawkeye" and wonder why they aren't permitted to attend.
Wait...what? You mean to tell me all that buckskin that I bou...and the hat? And the gun I had engraved 'Killdeer'....
Man...
Post by: mario on July 15, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: "Detached"
Quote from: "mario"...many folks think that it's historical fact and...Show up at LH events looking all "Hawkeye" and wonder why they aren't permitted to attend.
Wait...what? You mean to tell me all that buckskin that I bou...and the hat? And the gun I had engraved 'Killdeer'....
Man...
You don't know the half of it...
Mario
Post by: Tommy Bruce on July 20, 2014, 02:06:52 PM
Post by: Geezer in NH on July 21, 2014, 07:32:23 PM
Post by: mario on July 22, 2014, 06:19:24 PM
Quote from: "Geezer in NH"
I loved watching the Patriot especially when he picked up the balls cast from the lead solders right after they were cast. He must have had God on his side for that.
My favorite part is the tavern scene.
Mario
Post by: Kermit on July 29, 2014, 01:07:19 AM
The Deerslayer
The Last of the Mohicans
The Pathfinder
The Pioneers
The Prarie
Cooper was an interesting man. His writings of the sea rise from his own days before the mast. He first went to sea at age 17, IIRC, and wrangled a commission as a Midshipman in the Navy by virtue of his wealthy father's time as a Congressman. Cooper inherited fairly vast wealth at about the age of 20, which afforded him the freedom to write, although how he came to pen his first novel is an interesting, but separate, tale.
A couple of his novels of which I'm sort of fond are "Wing and Wing" (sea tale) and "Oak Openings or the Bee Hunter" (set in Michigan in 1812). A lot of Cooper can be had as free downloads these days.
Cooper was born after much of what he wrote about, and was totally fiction when it was first published, some of it rather deep into the 19th century. He was pretty popular in Europe at the time. Fun reading once you adapt to the language of another time. But, hey, we go after those times in clothing, food, firearms, tentage, and so forth, so why not immerse yourself in the written language of the time as well. Just takes diving in and devoting a little time to it, just like those other skills and endeavors.
Post by: Bigsmoke on July 29, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
Prior to its starting production, we were contacted about supplying 50 shooting bags and a small number of powder horns, which we did.
Now, I am not sure how many times I have watched that movie, both on the big screen and on tape/DVD. In all those viewings, I have only seen but one of the bags and none of the horns.
By the way, the bag was carried by Wes Studi.
Wonder where the rest of the stuff went? :Doh!
John
Post by: Geezer in NH on July 30, 2014, 06:27:28 PM
Great place where they will be used for what they are!!!!!!!!
Post by: snake eyes on July 31, 2014, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: "Detached"
Quote from: "mario"The sad part is, the book and the movies have little to do with actual historical fact. :shake [/color]
Post by: Sir Michael on July 31, 2014, 02:41:18 PM
Like you I take most movies as entertainment not documentaries. I've taken to looking up the facts about events that could be historical in nature and find that most of the time they bear little resemblance to actual history. Case in point, I started watching "Da Vinci's Demons" one character constantly wears a pair of four lens sun glasses. Just one problem, the period of the show is around 1470 and those glasses were not invented until 1797. But they look good. Its historical fiction not historical fact.
Post by: huntinguy on August 02, 2014, 11:17:15 AM
From what I read he did a good deal of political writing until... well, he wasn't popular with his opinions and backed off those writings in the states.
So, other than the balls, enlighten a old geezer on some of the other "errors", if ya don't mind.
Post by: mario on August 02, 2014, 11:49:40 PM
Quote from: "huntinguy"
So, other than the balls, enlighten a old geezer on some of the other "errors", if ya don't mind.
Off the top of my head:
The impression given of Hawkeye/Nathaniel is that of a longhunter. Such did not exist in NY.
The rifle made for the movie (DDL version) is not only of the wrong style, but rifles were very rare at that time in NY.
I know of no images or descriptions of men simply wearing their long hair loose at the time/place.
The shirt Nathaniel wears, not even close to an original image or artifact. Especially since it was supposed to be a hunting shirt which isn't documented before 1768-ish.
The actual "ambush/massacre" did not take place out in the woods, but at the gates of FWH. The Indians also went in and dug up graves to steal from them and killed men in the fort's hospital, unknowingly bringing back smallpox to their villages.
Then of course are the buses in the scene of the fort's surrender and the "Indian" in the black "wife-beater" shirt during the ambush...
I'd have to watch it again for more specific points.
Mario
Post by: Geezer in NH on August 03, 2014, 07:55:02 PM
Post by: greyhunter on August 03, 2014, 10:29:05 PM
Quote from: "Geezer in NH"
It's a movie from HW it was fun to watch unlike most they put out.
Post by: huntinguy on August 04, 2014, 06:49:43 PM
Post by: Detached on August 05, 2014, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: "huntinguy"
Looks like I need to watch it more closely next time.
Or, you could forget all of that, sit back and enjoy the movie! It was never meant to be historically accurate. It's meant to be entertaining.
Post by: Detached on September 29, 2014, 08:55:44 AM
Post by: Loyalist Dave on October 30, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
Quote
the "Indian" in the black "wife-beater" shirt during the ambush
I hadn't known about that but took a good look, and sure enough, along with the guy in the plaid shirt that releases the buck for hawkeye to shoot in the opening scenes... in the ambush right after the girls dismount from their horse, in from the right side of the screen come two Indians, and the second is a bearded dude in a headband wearing the black wife-beater.
LD
Post by: druid on February 05, 2015, 01:45:55 AM
Model For Cooper's Indian Chingachgook Buried In Bethlehem Those Moravian `Mohicans' - Morning Call (http://articles.mcall.com/1992-10-01/features/2894716_1_zinzendorf-indian-war-mohican-native-american)
According to that article [and others of less interesting detail], most information for the novel [on which the movie is based] was derived from Moravian missionaries who wrote about their involvement and dealings with the Mohicans [as well as other tribes of the area].
Moravian records here are vast - VOLUMES are contained in Moravian Libraries all over the city - to include the "rare books section" at Lehigh University's Linderman Library List of Lehigh University buildings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehigh_University_buildings#Linderman_Library_.281877.29)
It can't be all THAT impractical as far as "basic/general accuracy" goes. I mean sure.....they created a movie...and movies can often use fact + fiction to create the final product [See the Da Vinci Code as 1 example] - but if you consider that Moravian clergy were recording their interactions, thoughts and impressions about the lives and times of the era ...and Cooper used that information in his novels....can this really be dismissed as a "complete fabrication?"
Post by: greyhunter on February 05, 2015, 12:39:21 PM
Post by: snake eyes on February 05, 2015, 01:48:23 PM
:shake [/color]
Post by: Longhunter on February 05, 2015, 10:10:43 PM
Post by: Longhunter on February 06, 2015, 10:26:46 AM
"When Moravian artist John Valentine Haidt, who arrived in Bethlehem in 1754, after Tschoop's death, did his painting "First Fruits," he included a figure that is said to be Job, the Mohican warrior. Ralph Schwarz, director of Historic Bethlehem Inc., feels that this is probably a good likeness of the Indian. "There are other copies of the `First Fruits' in Europe and they all identify this as Tschoop."
"Tschoop was so well known among the Moravians that when painter John Valentine Haidt came to the community in 1754 he included a portrait of the Indian in his painting "First Fruits." But Tschoop became best known when he was used as the model for the Moravian Indian Chingachgook, in James Fenimore Cooper's 1826 novel "Last of the Mohicans." (click on painting to enlarge)
(http://www.moravianchurcharchives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/First-Fruits1.jpg)
Post by: trent/OH on February 06, 2015, 05:13:09 PM
Quote from: "druid"
This thread is old I know - but I'm new to this forum and I live in the town where the 'inspiration" for Cooper's character "Chingachgook" had lived, and is now buried....
Are you still apologetic for re-opening this thread?
I hope not. You've turned a thread into a tapestry.
Post by: Geezer in NH on February 06, 2015, 06:58:23 PM
Thank you and please stay on the site
Post by: Staredge on February 17, 2015, 04:48:10 PM