Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Accoutrements => Topic started by: LongWalker on September 30, 2025, 05:46:26 PM
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Well, I did say Kdubs thread here https://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=27770.0 gave me an idea or two. . . . :laughing
This one has been posted on the Trade Blanket for a couple years, if it was going to sell it wouldn't be sitting on my shelf. So. . . .
When I first posted it, I wrote:
I bought this one just to see how it was made; once I got that out of my system it is just taking up room on the shelf. The horn measures about 18" around the curve. Lathe-turned and carved plug; the tip is actually 2-pieces (an unthreaded collar, and the actual screw-tip). . . . . Now here's the glitch. The horn is what we'd usually think of as left-hand carry. It has the usual staple up by the spout, and another near the plug (and I have no idea what the maker/re-modeler was thinking when he put that there). With the carrying strap going around the tip, under the staple on the outside, and the other end fastened to the finial on the plug, it carries OK on the right. If you attach the strap to the rear staple, it carries "funny"--not at all comfortable for me. There are also two holes where a previous staple was installed at the tip, now plugged with glued-in wooden pins.
And there it sits:
(https://tradmla.org/tmaf/gallery/9404_30_09_25_5_26_32.jpeg)
(https://tradmla.org/tmaf/gallery/9404_30_09_25_5_25_24.jpeg)
(https://tradmla.org/tmaf/gallery/9404_30_09_25_5_25_57.jpeg)
This is not a horn I would have made into a powder horn. I'm not a fan of the twist, or the way it is so aggressively a left-side carry. I've seriously considered about 4"-5" off the butt, making a new plug and band for the back, and maybe scratching it up. The color doesn't lend itself well to the type of scrimshaw I prefer to do, or it would already be done.
If I'm not going to cut it down, the first thing I need to do is get rid of the staple in the side of the horn. I cun play with locations and (hopefully) find one where I can put a staple in the side of the ring at the big end, resulting in a horn that can be carried on the right.
I may use the screw tip and band to do an experiment in coloration that I've been toying with for a couple months. We'll see on that.
Other thoughts/suggestions?
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Unless I'm seeing it wrong, I might cut it to just a little over half. I think it might carry well and make a nice trail walk horn.
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I was having the same thoughts , make a nice day horn!
Kevin
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The concept of a "day horn" just doesn't fit with how I shoot. My first horn was a smaller horn; in the first match I shot I learned that it didn't hold enough to finish the aggregate. Any more, if a horn won't hold at least a pound of powder, I don't want it.
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Wow Jim.That's a lot of powder to carry around. My largest horn holds 3000 grains. That's enough to shoot a 17 target course with powder left over after the shoot. You must shoot at a lot of targets or use some pretty stout loads.
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I've never weighed out the capacity of a horn. How big would a horn be that held a pound?
When I had my .62 sporting rifle, I used 150 grains of Ffg and my horn held enough for a 20 shot course.
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Don't know if this old man can carry a whole pound of powder at one time. :Doh!
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Well John, it sounds like your horn carried about 500 grains less than 1/2 lb. So a horn twice the size of yours would have carried about 1 lb. Just to give you an idea. Takes a pretty big horn to hold 1 lb. of powder.
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Had to find some pics with a scale in them.
If I remember right, this horn held just about 3/4-7/8# of powder:
(https://tradmla.org/tmaf/gallery/9404_29_06_25_10_31_28.jpeg)
This is my main horn. I've used in matches, carried it on jaunts across (literally) thousands of miles, hunted with it from the Arctic Circle to south Texas. Capacity is just a hair under 2#:
(https://tradmla.org/tmaf/gallery/9404_29_06_25_10_37_34.jpeg)
It originally made it in a class I got strong-armed into conducting at a rendezvous back in the late '80s. As originally made it held just over 2#. After a canoe wreck left it underwater for a week or so ~2005, the base plug cracked. I wound up shortening the horn at the base and fitting a new plug (you can see where the scrimshaw got "chopped" in a couple places).
I do tend to use loads that are heavier than others, but I also shoot a lot--and this is also the horn I use when teaching "Intro to flintlocks" where we sometimes shoot 100 rounds. At the most-recent match I shot--what we are calling the "First (Possibly-annual-but-maybe-not) Fall Invitational"* (not to be confused with the actual "Spring Annual Invitational"*), I shot two rifles (.50 percussion and .51 flint). One of my shooting partners doesn't have a caplock, so he borrowed my Leman for the percussion aggregate. Three aggregates and the side-matches totaled ~120 shots, burning almost 1.5# of powder.
I also took my Colonial as a spare/loaner. It got loaned to several people who wanted to try it out. Someone sponsored a "Kibler match"--you had to shoot one of Kibler's rifles--and there went another 20 rounds for me, one of my shooting partners, and a couple of shooters who borrowed it. There went another 1/2 pound plus.
This was actually only the second time I've had to fill this horn at a match.
*"Invitational" is a fuzzy term. The email invite last spring said "bring a friend, a newbie, your daughter's boyfriend, or some guy off the street".
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Very interesting Jim. And I'm thoroughly convinced now that you definitely need a horn capable of holding at least 1 lb. of powder. If not more.
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Here we go, this is a pretty big horn, probably capable of holding enough powder to fill your horn a couple of times, and then some. I am thinking I made this sometime in the 1980's when I was buying horns from a fellow around Houston, TX.
I wanted a horn to hang above our display at the SHOT Show that could draw some attention. It was displayed all the time I attended it, which probably terminated in the mid 1990's
(https://i.ibb.co/bRK4R95n/IMG-7697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0VG0Vby3)
Funny story about that horn. One time Ms. Smoke took a photo of me in front of our display. Unfortunately, she didn't double check the background, and it appeared that the horn went in one side of my head and out the other.
The horn is 25" from the tip to the start of the baseplug, on the bottom curve. It is 13" in circumference at the base. It has a brass Treso pour spout on the tip.
Another funny story. I had October Country scrimshawed on the side. The fellow who did the work misspelled Country with County and he had to scrape all that work off and start over again. Whoops!!!
Joihn
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Sweet horn John, I think I could attend a year's worth of shoots with that and never have to refill it. :bigsmile:
Kevin
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It was a good horn to have when I shot my 8 bore double at 300 grains per shot.
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Here's my current horn in it's very early stages.
Kevin
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Little more progress.
Narrowing the throat and paneling the spout with a small lip at the tip
If I don't screw it up.
Kevin
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I never put tape around the horn. Does it really help?
That's a serious question.
Looks like you are working on the throat of the horn. How far are you going to take it down?
Looks like a good project so far, not sure where you are going.
John
PS: Are you going to take the tape off, or will it be there forever? :luff: :luff:
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I'll be taking the tape off sooner or later. :lol sign
I'm following Sibley's book, pretty much just like the example shown in the book but without the split ring .
The tape help me not bugger up the parts I don't want to bugger up.
I'm rasping the throat down and paneling the spout.
Guess I'll do a flat plug too.
Also I will try dyeing the the throat/ spout and I'll be engraving a design based on my church Logo , Freedom Baptist
Kevin
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Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Well here she is, not a HC representation but my own take on one I guess.
Simple dome base plug.
Now on to the next one while I wait on a new pucking die for my BP production.
Kevin
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I was wondering about that horn the other day.
Looks pretty good to me. Nice job.
I cannot remember ever doing a horn with engrailing on it. Never had the time for that, considering I was always in a back order situation. I don't think I ever missed anything by not doing it.
You might want to open up the spout hole a tad so the fiddle peg goes in deeper. A tapered auger from Harbor Freight will give you a nice tapered spout hole.
John
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I like it Kevin. :hairy
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Ya know John I did use a tapered reamer but the outer hole was becoming much greater than the inner hole leaving a space around the peg.
Thought I better stop there and was considering making a custom peg with the correct taper so as to completely fill the peg hole.
The engrailing was done , gasp :Doh!, with a Dremel .
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This is the current horn I've moved on to.
Sort of a tulip tip.
We'll see how she turns out.
Kevin
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You keep that up and you might get a job at October Country as a horn maker. :laffing :laffing :laffing
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If I have to do it all with files like I have been I'll never get any orders out for October country .
Kevin
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Think mechanical assists.
A 2x48 or a 2x72 belt sander works wonders and truly speeds up the process.
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I have a 4x36 but I think you're right.
Now how to convince my wife :luff:
Sometime in the future I'm sure I'll have one , she did let me buy a new file though.
Kevin
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You need a sander with a removable platten, else the belt cannot flex in the inside curve.
a 4x36 should work, if the platten is not a part of the frame.
And you need cloth backed belts, not paper.
The 4" belt can be cut into two 2" belts.
Best if the belt is in a vertical position.
Things to ponder as you wander, yonder.
John
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Alright John, I'm on the hunt for a sander, surprisingly my wife was onboard with the need to cure my sickness :bigsmile:
Hoping to find a gently used one but we'll see.
Kevin
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Eric gifted me a couple rehab horns to play with.
The smaller horn has a leather butt plug, interesting 🤔
Once I do something with them I'll post the results.
Kevin
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The little one is sure a cutie! Keep us posted what you make of them! :wave
~Kees~
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Gave up that tulip Horn, probably change it to a small flat horn
Just wasn't becoming what I wanted it to.
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My current interpretation of a tansel horn
Working on the plug now, probably keep as close to this ones plug as I can
Kevin
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I'll hire you Kevin. Nothing wrong with telling customers they have to be a little bit patient.
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Oh thank you kind sir.
Got my hands on a 1" belt sander, did the spout with that, what a time saver.
The neck or throat is all hand done, what a PITA. Not sure the old timers did that kinda work, scraping maybe?
Overall I'm pretty durn happy so far.
Almost have the plug shaped, think I need to order up some real brass tacks, not the two piece ones I have on hand.
All stained with potassium permanganate, I've used it on wood projects but never horn
Works great
Kevin
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I'd like to attempt the look of the repaired spout also.
Gotta scratch my brain for another on that
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Kevin
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Never heard of two piece brass tacks. I'm sure everybody else knows what they are. But I don't. I'm not the sharpest tack in the pack.
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Ha ha, ok let's get down to brass tacks !
The two piece ones have a visible dot in the center of the head where the post is inserted I suppose.
I just ordered some solid brass ones and some sheet brass for the spout
We'll see what Amazon shows up with.
Kevin
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I guess the two piece tacks are upholstery tacks with a brass top and a stainless pin. They would probably work OK, but...
I am just not a fan of upholstery tacks on powder horns. I rather prefer the escutcheon pins myself. The 14 ga pins are what I always used. Lately, I have been using 1/8" dowel.
Silly me, I never thought about Amazon as a supplier for brass tacks, I always bought mine through Clendenin Bros, but they have changed policies and only supply distributors. I just didn't care to do that, so I have held off from ordering anything.
I did order some off of Amazon just now. They should be here on Monday. Evidently they are foreign manufacture, so probably made in China. Oh well.
Your Tansel style horn looks pretty darn nice. A job well done, my friend. I think I tried one once many years ago. I didn't finish it. Way more trouble than I had time for. Depending on what I was working on, I needed to finish about 8 - 12 horns per day. It was a grueling process. Fortunately, I did have a guy working for me who handled all the sanding and such.
John
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8-12 a day, good Lord.
I might do 8-12 a year, this is a hobby after all.
I just kinda winged it, I've made alot of things over the years just starting with a picture.
No idea what I was doing.
Thank you for the compliments.
Kevin
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See, that's the difference.
Most people are doing it as a hobby and a pleasant pastime.
I was doing it to put gas in my snowmobiles and various mods on them and all my trips with them. Also black powder and caps and ball and patches in my guns. And an occasional new powder horn for myself. Plus there was a certain profit thought for the business.
Big difference.
Big difference in one's attitude and an even bigger difference in the equipment and techniques.
John
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Yes sir, .
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This is it until I get the tacks .
Used a screw in the back just like the original.
Kevin
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:hairy Sweet
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While I wait for my tacks to arrive I decided to start this little flat horn.
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Shouldn't take too long to finish.
Kevin
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Kevin
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Good job flattening it, Kevin.
I think it will be a pretty one.
John
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And that's a flat horn
Kevin
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I saw several flat horns in museums in the UK. Some, carved on the sides or sides and edges, were roughly 1/2" thick. I'd never managed to get one that thin while retaining enough thickness to carve. Then I got to handle one and learned the carving was usually ~.010" deep. Still haven't done one that thin, but I may someday.
No progress on my rehab horn, and I'm about to throw in the towel and post it over on ALR. I'd just rather work on my own projects than re-working this one.
Did a batch of powder measures a couple weeks ago, got some ideas to play with there. I picked up some tools to re-work, and I'm going to try out the ideas this weekend--trashcan is empty, so if they don't work out I can destroy the evidence! ;D
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Looking forward seeing what you can do.
I think I'm taking a short break from horns and going to get back to making a bag or two
Recently finished milling 4# of BP, and pucked and ground up another 1 1/2# of the same.
So I'm all set on that for awhile too.
Never been diagnosed with ADHD but I'm sure I have it, probably just ADD , I'm not to hyper. :lol sign
I can be pretty lazy when I want too.
Good luck on the projects, post up some pics as you can
Kevin
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I think today--as soon as the shop gets warmed up to at least 50 degrees F--I'm probably going to work on some powder measures. There's a couple of originals I've admired for a time, I want to play with the turning and the carving.
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A while back, I bought some horns that someone had started.
I needed one real fast and chose one that would handle Fg powder. It had a Treso pour spout on it. That worked out pretty good. Except it is one ugly, ugly horn.
A month or so ago, I started working on another one that was half started and as I was filing on a groove I discovered a worm hole coming in from the inside of the horn. And a couple of ones on the side of the tip. That went back into the box.
Another one has the baseplug already installed but I just cannot figure out what I want to do with it now.
I think I will put the whole box onto the shelf and start out with fresh horns. I have little patience trying to rehab someone else's work.
John
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Well John you can always turn them into Combs and spoons
Kevin
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Well, that is an idea worth thinking about, but... NO
20 some years ago Linda McWhorter who was the purchasing agent at Dixie Gun Works told me that the old fellow who had been making their combs either was retiring or had died, I forget which, and would I be interested in making combs for them. I had more than enough on my plate at that time and politely declined the offer.
I imagine that if a person was making combs, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make horn forks as well. One would think they would be at least better than plastic ones. Then you could make forks, teaspoons and soup spoons. I would think one could get the whole set out of one medium size horn. How sweet.
John