Traditional Muzzleloading Association
The Center of Camp => People of the Times => Topic started by: Groundhog on September 28, 2007, 09:08:44 PM
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What footwear did the Early Longhunter really wear ?
... did he turn to mocs when other footwear wore out ?
did they go barefoot ...
just wondering what the veiwpoints are
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I remember reading in Mark Bakers book that several of the hunters working out of the Illinois country purchased shoes prior to going on their hunts.
I'd say the most common things would be period shoes of some sort and moccasins...
Adam
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Shoes, mocs, shoepacks, barefoot (:shock: ouch). Whatever you think you need. Baker has an article in the current Muzzleloader on that subject. He covers barefeet and shoepacks. He also sites a letter from Bouquet that the riflemen won't go into the woods without mocs, and can he have some dressed skins shipped to him for them to make mocs. Doderidge also references that a center seams was what everybody wore, they needed daily repair, and it was a decent way of going barefoot. I tend to agree.
One interesting tid bit..., Mark Baker mentions that he has found that greasing mocs for wear in warm weather tends to cause the leather to break down faster than if he uses the leather as tanned. His feet get wet, and so do the ungreased mocs, and both have to be dried out (so you have to carry additional pairs to wear while others dry). I hadn't made that observation. I will have to try that out.
LD
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All of the above would be correct. They used shoes until they wore out, then mocs, then they went barefoot at times. I would but these fire ants down here. Shoespacs..?... That is open to discussion and interpertation.
On Mark's newest article, I did like his Doddridge frontier shoes based on his descriptions, what did you guys think of those?
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Covering ya paws is important.
Honestly I think hard soled shoe n boots played a major roll...
More so... than moccasins...
but once away from the settlements... hide got made into footwear...would be cool to see the different styles they came up with.
hunt well n safe
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Baker cites in his book that prior to the AWI, some of the hunters for Morgan, in Kaskaskia, drew shoes from the store. Others used only mocs. Depends on what your feet can take, AND what the terrain is like. Afterall , Apache wouldn't be caught in the SW desert with eastern center seams. Too many cactus thorns. So even NA's varied their footgear for the same reasons. The Roman sandal worked fine until they reached northern Gaul and Brittain. Then they started wearing what we would call socks. Again, what worked in one place had to be adapted. When I do military, I do hi-low boots, as my ankles need the support. Others use shoes and half-gaiters. Do what you need to do.
LD
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Need some low heel boots...
Feet cannot take the mocs...
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Check out the Fugawee hi-lows, the heels are only about 1.5" high. I had a second full sole put onto mine at the Rockville (MD) Shoe Hospital. THEN I had them put on the hobnails! Really cool! (BUT they suck on linoleum when making an ice-run at the convenience store sorta like being barefoot on hydrolic fluid on glass..., think about it
)
the only caveat..., go two full sizes larger on Fugawees for a proper fit.
LD
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Kind of amazing what one can do if one "builds" up the toughness of thier feet. I have a good friend that as a kid was able to run barefoot through an alfalfa field after it was cut. Not something I would want to try for sure. Years back, when I was still living in Wisconsin the bunch I hunted deer with always rented a cabin up north from the same folks...over time we became friends. I recall one night up there, the temp was below zero and the owners home was about 50 yards from our cabin...there was a knock on the door and when we opened it there was the owner's little girl with a plate of homemade cookies here mother made. The girl was about 10 or 11 years old...was in a sort of nightshirt and was barefoot. When asked if she was cold...she said no. When I was a kid back there...if my buddie and I got bored in the winter time...we would put our swim suits on and wrestle in the snow. Never got sick either, come to think of it.
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This here is one Groundhog with tender feet
TENDERFOOT
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I would imagine that for travel they'd stick with the heavier duty footwear - shoes if they had them, otherwise mocs.
But I figure for hunting, you'd shift to mocs to be quieter and help in the hunt - which was their reason for being out there in the first place.
Of course that's if they had the option. If all you have is one set of boots or a set of mocs and nothing else - then that's what you wear.
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Loyal Dave - Do the Fugawees really run TWO sizes small? I'm looking at getting a set of boots; buskins or fugawees, so any added info would be appreciated.
r/
MM
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I could and still can but not as easy since I moved to the hot south, walk through ice covered creeks up to my waist in the water, snow, and ice and way below freezing and not get cold or sick at all.
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I used on the last weekend trek two pairs of moccasins on the trail. They did get soooo wet. Half way on the trail I changed for a dry pair and had a pair of wool socks in them but pretty soon they also went wet. Those wool socks helped a bit because even wet the wool warms your feet a little bit but only when you are walking along.
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MN Mike,
(sizes mentioned below are in the American system)
I wear a 10 - 10.5 in shoes, maybe an 11 in hunting boots where I want to wear a pair of socks on each foot.
The shoes from Flying Canoe Traders that I own are wonderful, buckle type, and they are 9.5, and I wear thick, wool, knee length socks in those.
For me to get the proper width in my Fugawee Hi-lows (purchased to give me better ankle support) I had to get a size 12. I wear very thick socks as well, but that's what I had to do, and I tried several different sutlers when I went looking, so it wasn't a case of me getting an "odd" pair (imho)
I also had the Rockville Shoe Hospital put on a second sole, so that I could put proper hobnails on the things. They are good shoes/boots, just not very wide.
LD
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Thanks. Appreciate the info.
r/
MM
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If you go barefoot (or wear moccs) enough your feet will toughen up. My mother was a sharecroppers daughter during the Great Depression and was 1 of 8 children. She told me that she only got shoes in the winter and I believe her. She could walk on our gravel road barefoot as well as I could in shoes.
I believe frontiersmen went barefoot (or wore moccs) more often than they wore shoes. Shoes were expensive. The less you wear them , the longer they lasted.
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The less you wear them , the longer they lasted.
Now there is true frontier logic for you . . .
r/
MM
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I used to go bare foot all the time up north. Since i have moved down here these stupid fire ants wont allow it. But the good thing about sand is that the mocs last longer.
But im with Mark about them trying to use their fottwear as little as possible, be it mocs or shoes.
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Rocks no good on bare feet... or leather.
Gotta protect de doggs.
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21st century mindset doesn't work for 18th-19th century applications..
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=007 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170169409532&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007)
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I wasn't trying to use a 21st Century Mindset. I was relating what my parents told me about their childhood. They were born in the 1920's in rural Tennessee. Even though they were 3 generations removed from their frontier ancestors, they were still raised in much the same way as their ancestors. They didn't get electricity, automobiles, tractors or running water in their homes til after WW2.They farmed with horses and mules. Work was done with hand tools. Food was grown in gardens or gathered wild. They slaughtered the livestock for meat and cured it in smoke houses behind their homes. They heated and cooked with wood. Barter was still used on a regular basis to get goods and services . Hunting and trapping helped to supplement the farm income and dinner table.Worn items were repaired. If worn beyond repair, it was usually saved to be used for something else (i.e. worn out clothes became pieced quilts, flour sacks became dresses, worn horseshoes became nails,etc.). They only got one pair of shoes (clothes could be made at home but shoes had to be bought) a year and they weren't worn unless absolutely necessary.
Farm life didn't change much in rural Appalachia in the hundred or so years after it was no longer the frontier (especially during and after Reconstruction).
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Hillis816-my comment wasn't directed at your postings....it was directed at the " need to protect the feet with boots" mindset..no offense meant to your ancestors...
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Mitch, no offense taken. I did think that your comment was directed towards my post and I do apologize if I might have seemed defensive. My footwear theory is based on what 19th and early 20th century people have told me and I've been questioned because of this . I still feel that it is a viable theory because time moved alot slower in Appalachia than it did in other parts of the country . I am not saying that my 19th and early 20th century ancestor's life were exactly the same as colonial frontier people but there are similarities .
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What Hills said...man...brings back memories. Now..I was not born in Applachia...however, as a kid, I can recall some of my relatives were farmers. This was back when I lived in Wisconsin. My Mother had an uncle..he, his wife, and one son had a good sized farm, milked some 30 head of cows by hand plus cultivated maybe at the end...600 acres. I can recall when they did not have electricity, had a wood stove..and uses horses to plow and such. My Mother's dad was the "baby" of the family...the youngest. He had an older brother..the oldest of the kids...this uncle was in his 90's when I was still in grade school. Anyhow...this uncle was a wonderful person to be around..would answer any question you had..sad thing was..at my young age then...I did not know what to ask always. Why was it sad...well....he was born while the Civil War was still going on. Think about it....that really was not that long ago.
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I Remember my mother ...telling me while growing up in rural WVA... all 23 kids ran barefoot in the summer... one day she stepped ona pile of snakes... barefoot.
She got lucky... no bites.
My guess is people used to go barefoot alot when the weather allowed.
HUNT SAFE ALL
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When you read books and so forth written during the 18th and 19th century you get a real feel for what things were like back then. (Mark Twain is amazing at this..Huck Finn gets all the glory, but Tom Sawyer is a much better book in my opinion.) But it was fairly common for people of those times to go barefoot as soon as the weather allowed, and as someone pointed out earlier, if you do this on a regular basis, what "the weather allows" is lot earlier than for the rest of us. But spring and summer (and well into the fall, at least down South) People did not wear shoes except on Sunday to go to church. "Sunday go to meeting clothes" (which included shoes) were special and as the name suggests, worn only on Sunday and for a relativly brief time at that.
Don't forget the story of Daniel Boone sitting outside, relaxing in his Sunday clothes, shoes off (my emphasis, I assume if your feet have a steady diet of moccasins, "regular" shoes might be very uncomfortable) when Boone recieved word that his daughter Jemina and two other girls had been kidnapped by Indians. He immedieately took off after them. Took them three days to get them back, but they did.
(Right hand to God, there really is a point in here somewhere. I just sort of lost it..)
My guess is that moccasins were far more common along the frontier, folks in the villages and towns, (America did not have much in the way of cities back then) wore shoe, but some one back in the wilds of Western Carolina, or further, or in the "Kaintuck' or Ohio region wore mocs.
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One of my NA reenactor friends told me he uses the pad conditioning cream for hunting dogs to make thick but pliable callouses (hard ones tear and it takes months to properly heal) on his feet like it does for hunting dogs. Even though he does landscaping barefoot, there are just too many places that require him to have shoes to enter.., so he can't build up several years of layers, but claims the pad cream works.
I wonder what else the cream might do to a person, but he says he's done with getting any new kids, so not a problem I suppose. (Might improve scent capability AND make you fleet footed when chasing rabbits??)
LD
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I started working on a pair of center seam mocs yesterday.
Got one of them finished.
[albumimg:193sdtf9]2955[/albumimg:193sdtf9]
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My wife makes my centerseams for me. Always have an extra pair with me if one pair gets too wet.
Don't take up much room.
Things is though, I cheat! I wear a pair of innersoles in them. Saves on the "ouch" when you step on a pointed rock or such.
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My father was born in 1922 my grandfather in 1884 - I remember my uncle did not have an indoor toilet until early 1970s I had to use the outhouse.
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First off I have to say that the longhunter period is out of my area of interest. However, all this discussion about going barefoot reminded me of any individual that I saw almost every day when I was at University in Moscow. He never wore shoes. Starting in the fall I would see him padding across the quad bare foot and he continued to do so every day through the winter regardless of how much snow there was. I often thought about how he could do that but concluded that if you never put shoes on the gradual change in the weather and the temperature of the ground would be easy to get used to. I never go close enough to him to find out why he did what he did just watched from a distance.
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sick puppy ... bet he had thick skin.
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How common were high top boots similar to calvary type of the period, are there any references to these at all being used by civilians?
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High top boots were common in the early 19th century for farmers, and young gents who rode horseback. In polite company, farmers and young gents wore shoes.
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Keep in mind in the Middle Ground trade goods were very scarce from 1776 until 1782 due to Injun troubles. During that time most ended up barefoot or wearin' centerseam or puckertoe mocs. Yep, they indeed wore shoes, if available, but it depends where & when you're portraying.
Mike
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About tender feet....when I was a kid my mother simply refused to allow her kids to go barefoot outside. Shoes had been such a scarce and precious commodity when she was growing up that she was determined that her kids always had shoes on. Down side of that was that I grew up having very tender feet.
Now, I go without shoes whenever and where ever I can just to toughen my feet up. Doing this makes the times of wearing mocs much more comfortable and helps immensely when it is necessary to go barefoot while in the woods.
Morgan
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Someone mention "Roman" sandals? Try this guy. He's been at it for decades, and chooses to live in Lahiana, Hawaii. Wouldn't you?
http://www.islandsandals.com/ (http://www.islandsandals.com/)
Pretty "PC" for sandals--he'll use a leather heel if you want. They look spendy, but last forever. I hung out with him for hours one day, and learned a lot about stitching leather, with a good bit of history thrown in.
Somehow I don't think his footwear would pass muster...
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Yep, they indeed wore shoes, if available, but it depends where & when you're portraying.
Even when available on the frontier, shoes are often not chosen. Morgan sold shoes in his store in Kaskasia in the 1760's, and (iirc) a single reference exists for one of the many hunters there buying a pair. For self use, for trade, as a gift to a young lady ..., who can say, but none of the other hunters appear to have bought or taken them on credit.
LD
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But it does depend also if you'll be walking on pavement or not. I made my Nancy about 8 or more pairs
of centerseam mocassins in deerskin, Elk, and buffalo, but 1st time she went to Williamsburg, Va., she
got shin splints. 
So I got her some hard soled buckle shoes for the pavement or hard floor events now.
Mike
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I would think the shin-splints were caused by the lack of the heel on the mocs, not the hard pavement. The preventive cure for the ailment is to stretch the muscles on the back of the calves by flexing the feet upward.
LD
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Osayo All,
I know this is an old thread, but it does have alot of good info.
As far as greasing mocs, This is MY experience.
I use mocs alot. I have found that greased mocs, in any weather WILL get wet. It just may take a bit longer to happen. The difference is what happens after they get wet.
Now from my experience, Wet greased mocs are really slippery. They retain the water and eventually can actually fill with water.
They take forever to dry.
I stopped greasing my mocs and what i have found is that, yes my feet and mocs get wet. However they dry really fast at the end if the day. I carry a second set for night that are dry and use them the next day. If not dry by morning, the wet ones will dry in short order.
As far as Insoles are concerned, I use them too. There are all sorts of period alternatives to modern insols that are perfectly PC to use. They do help with the sharp stones.
In winter, I have a second set of mocs that are larger and fit over the other set. These are heavilly greased. When frozen they are just as good as when dry. they do a tolerable job of keeping the inner mocs dry and warm.
Theses are just some thoughts from things that I have done.
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I know that when I was a boy , you went bare foot once the weather began to warm. If you were the oldest of the kids you would get new shoes for scchool ,church etc. the old pair would get repaird /// and given to the next kid in line this would be repeated untill you ran out of kids or the shoes just couldn't be mended ! This process was common with rual kids and those familys in towns that were low on the money scale . :idea: If the shoes you inherited from an older kid were a little big , paper got stuffed in the toe to make them fit untill ( you grew into them ) :walk
I have read that the rifle brigade from Pa. durring the Rev. made the several hundred mile march to Mass. mostly barefooted. One of the Hessian officers had discribed the appearence of the patriot riflemen as having a fringed rifle frock leather britches and "barefoot " :!:
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Was wanting to make a pair of center seam mocs and would like to know where would be a good place to buy or download a pattern. Also what type of leather should I use?
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I found a good pattern on the Native Tech site. There is a pattern there for centerseams that you can custom make to your foot. I was successful the first time I used it. I don't know what leather most use. I just used some I had on hand although it may be a little thin. I was able to double sole a pair by making a tracing of my feet.
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Archer thanks for the information. I am going to make me pair.
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Good luck Fireman. I've made two pair using that pattern and they all turned out well. I didn't like the way the flap stuck out in the back so I folded it up the back of the heel and sewed it. Sewing on the double soles was a PITA. It took longer than sewing up the whole moccasin to start with!
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The Ft Ligonier is what I wear. I, along with our club members, was lucky enough to tour the archive basement at the museum at Fort Ligonier in Ligonier, PA. We were given photo copies of archived documents and drawings for patterns that were there. I have made both styles except I haven't made the leg wraps for the winter wear. The footwear is all made the same, but the winters are as large as needed for wool blanket material, wool skin (Booties), or other fir or hair on hide liners for warmth. If sewn in the correct stitching, every time you scuff against a rock or other abrasive item you weaken or cut the thread, sinew, and even leather. The collar is leather raised to lace on with the long lace to help snug the boot to the foot. The collar then is folded/lowered over the lace to protect it. The high side can be lowered as a secondary collar, or to cool the ankle area in hot weather.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/Mad_Jack/FtLigPacks.jpg) (http://http)
Ft Ligonier shoe with sheepskin liner
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/Mad_Jack/FtLigSewn.jpg) (http://http)
my sewing alternative instructions. Left is documented sewing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/Mad_Jack/FtLigonierBoot.jpg) (http://http)
This is the documented sheet from the Ft Ligonier Historical Society. The original is in their archives in their basement. Members of our group were honored to receive a privite tour of the basement. OMG- Wow!!!.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/JADiehlJr/IMG_0329MA31919740-0001_zpsodutsamy.jpg) (http://http)
Ft Ligonier summer boot, shoe or moc. They're whatever you call them.